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Axis Transport Capacity

 
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Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 12:04:30 PM   
Vonrich

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		Hi Alvaro,

I have a historical question. What saved GB in 1939/40 is the fact that DE lacked both a navy that could challenge the British fleet and, even if they could, also lacked a fleet of transports/landing craft large enough to stage an invasion. So, both of those parts are well and good - DE doesn't have a great navy or does it have many landing craft. What it does have, when combined with a mechanic that I believe may be broken, is the ability to put 2 infantry corps and a panzer corps in London in one turn. Just for perspective, we are talking about transporting approximately:

Men Tanks Howitzer Mortars AT Guns HMGs LMGs AA
145,200 1050 570 1050 600 990 2850 135


Plus food, supplies, ammunition, fuel...etc etc

For comparison, the invasion at Normandy was 156,000...roughly this size. Sure, it's technically apples to oranges because one was an invasion and the other is going into a port, but I contend that there is no way the Germans can execute this maneuver with zero investment in transportation since the start of the game.

Lest we get sidetracked on the mechanics:
1) Parachute north of London, bomb the hell out of the HQ unit defending London, crush HQ, take London.
2) Invade the southern minefield hex the was supposed to protect London.
3) Transport troops from Denmark or Netherlands over at will. They will deploy to the RR hexes adjacent to London since London is occupied.

Technically, with the parachuting and the invasion, I moved 216000 men to the island in one turn, which I believe should be impossible.

Thanks,

Von
Post #: 1
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 12:37:10 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Not that it will you do any good right now, but in the mod that I am making this is no longer possible I think:

Or maybe still on the two rail hexes north of London where the two air units are now parked?

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 2/20/2020 12:38:39 PM >

(in reply to Vonrich)
Post #: 2
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 2:14:13 PM   
Vonrich

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		I'm not sure about your mechanics, but I see you have eliminated a minefield hex. While that's good, one could still paradrop to Harwich, take the aircraft to the SW, take the minefield (unless there was a unit immediately south of the minefield, NW of Dover). It wouldn't be possible to take London in that turn with only one para unit, but with two it would. The issue really is with the transport capacity of the Axis that just didn't exist. Not that they couldn't if a player spends resources to build it up, but it's ahistorical to have that capacity in 1939 by default.

Further, the idea that five battalions (~3,500 men, the size of the 1st Parachute Division represented here) could pacify London (population 8.5 million) is highly suspect. I feel like a mechanic for the pacification of a city could be implemented. Perhaps a function of unit size (i.e. 10, 20, or 30) compared to the production value of the city. Off the top of my head:
Where: city not occupied by opposing unit. If: (For each unit in or adjacent to the city AND in supply: (Strength/3) * Number of turns) >= Production Value. Then: City changes control. So, to pacify London the Axis would need a corps in the city for a full turn (30/3 >= 10) while controlling the minefield, without supply interdiction. Perhaps even a chance to spawn partisans equal to 15% for each production value. Why in supply? Because there's no Mauser plant in London.

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 3
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 2:18:59 PM   
Vonrich

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		Thinking more about my pacification function, you'd probably want to sum the strength rather than doing it for each to prevent rounding penalty or exploit (10 or 20, respectively).

(in reply to Vonrich)
Post #: 4
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 2:24:05 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		You might have an earlier version of the game. The Germans start with 10 or 20 landing ships. You can't transport in a corps into a port until it has supply which means you have to wait 1 turn. Then you can block the port with a fleet and pound the land unit. All your ports should be garrisoned. All the armor is off rail in the 1939 scenario so it will take 3 turns to get it over to the UK if you successfully invade. You should also be patrolling on your coast with UK and French fleets.

I'd look at all this first unless your opponent found some gamey exploit.



_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Vonrich)
Post #: 5
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 2:51:51 PM   
Vonrich

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		I was the one playing as Axis. I'm complaining about my own success, lol. You're right, he should have defended London better. No doubt.

Thinking back on it, it was actually over two turns, not one. First I took London with the parachute division (which should probably be strenth 10 with better training based on historical size) and then on the next turn I invaded across the channel into the hex next to Dover to take the minefield, then unloaded the rest of the units in London. The original numbers stand, minus the parachute division. I don't think the Germans had the transport capacity to ferry 135,000 people and 1,000 armor units plus other equipment in 1939. I don't disagree that the Landing Crafts are low - that's why I was only able to use a 20 strength unit to invade the minefield hex. The issue though is with the number of Transports, not Landing Craft. Maybe they had this capacity and I've just never learned of it?

For reference, we are playing on 1.00.05

< Message edited by Vonrich -- 2/20/2020 2:52:37 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 6
RE: Axis Transport Capacity - 2/20/2020 2:56:52 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		They had a lot of merchant marine. in 1939 almost as much as Japan and 50% of the USA.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Vonrich)
Post #: 7
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