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RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/5/2020 9:09:53 AM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
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From: Germany
Status: offline 		Is a hotfix coming soon?

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(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 31
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/5/2020 9:41:33 AM   
Model1950

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/1/2019
Status: offline 		https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4759454

Currently playing several 1.12.03 games and I believe the old supply bug is still present.

Also I see something "weird" in the fact that several units appear to have far more ammo then needed unlike 1.11.03.

The units that get starved for fuel have far more ammo then needed, is there something new in 1.12 that gives more ammo then 1.11?
This seems like a clear waste of trucks holding ammo and not holding fuel for mech/armor units.

Feel free to PM for server info so this can be pulled.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 32
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/7/2020 12:17:47 AM   
ErickRepie

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/6/2019
From: Indonesia
Status: offline 		Hi there,

just want to mention minor thing that (in 1.12.03) Ju-87D-3 and HS-129 production is 0 (in Dec 1942), is it intentionally ?

(in reply to Model1950)
Post #: 33
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/8/2020 4:59:48 PM   
marius1337

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 3/5/2019
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

After fixing the bug, that unit retreats to the hex with tank unit, as it's highest scored hex of the three. It's best one in four categories, second best in two, worst in two, tied in one (they are not weighted equally).

It was selection process that was wrong, thanks for providing easy to replicate example that I could use to fix it.


Is it possible to release a hotfix for this? I'm eager to try some things in 1.12 and "broken" retreat paths make this a bit annoying. Thanks for your great work though!

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 34
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/8/2020 5:28:08 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Well, they are not fully broken, units just retreat towards highest scored hex in full retreat range, instead to highest scored amongst nearest hexes.

(in reply to marius1337)
Post #: 35
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 12:08:32 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ErickRepie

Hi there,

just want to mention minor thing that (in 1.12.03) Ju-87D-3 and HS-129 production is 0 (in Dec 1942), is it intentionally ?
No. Details please.

(in reply to ErickRepie)
Post #: 36
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 3:51:52 AM   
Model1950

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/1/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss


quote:

ORIGINAL: ErickRepie

Hi there,

just want to mention minor thing that (in 1.12.03) Ju-87D-3 and HS-129 production is 0 (in Dec 1942), is it intentionally ?
No. Details please.



No. Details please.



Its ok D-man morvael will hold your little thing in the nearest little hex!




< Message edited by Model1950 -- 2/9/2020 4:09:19 AM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 37
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 4:14:44 AM   
Model1950

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/1/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Well, they are not fully broken, units just retreat towards highest scored hex in full retreat range, instead to highest scored amongst nearest hexes.


Dude really - that's bll-sht and u know it.




(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 38
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 6:18:42 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I'm just reluctant to launch the whole publishing machine for just 3 fixes that I have ready at this time.

(in reply to Model1950)
Post #: 39
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 1:36:13 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Lets first see how/where Erick has problems with aircraft production. May be a local problem of his game or a global problem in need of fixing.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 40
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/9/2020 3:54:01 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Quick request:
Can we get a hotkey for "Assign to"? Currently, you can assign to nearest HQ by pressing "g". It would nice to have a key, for example shift-g to get a popup of HQ's to assign to. Especially useful if you want to assign several units at a time to a specific HQ.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 41
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/11/2020 8:38:53 AM   
Gamer64

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/12/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn

Im curious what people think about the divided rail capacity (75%/25%). Easier turn 2 super-duper-Lvov-pocket when you cant rail out slow units not trapped turn 1? 25% less USSR industry evacuated the starting turns? I see the logic of the division, but what about game balance? I havent seen any comments about it so I suppose its all good, but I hardly think it favours USSR (which was the underdog earlier).



I'm finding the new cap to be crippling and I'm really not sure of the rationale.

The cap means you can move maybe 9-10 infantry divisions. To move even one mechanized units would use almost all the cap. So, you end up railing out of harms way a handful of infantry divisions and if you're lucky 2-3 from east to west.

I imagine the scene on the battlefield: Trains desperately full of retreating troops and civilians refugees going east, whilst empty trains return from the west past infantry units force marching from Moscow to the front line.

From reading the forums, there used to be a number of approaches to the Soviet defense in the early game. Now it feels like running full out to the east is the only one left.

While I'm commenting, the retreat rules seem really strange now. Units end up in strange places which they could never get to in real life. I'm not sure how long it will take my NW front infantry division to march back north from south of the Pripyat. I also don't recall front HQs ending up on the eastern border.

Gamer

(in reply to juv95hrn)
Post #: 42
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/11/2020 9:06:15 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gamer64
I'm finding the new cap to be crippling and I'm really not sure of the rationale.


The rationale was to reduce doubly unlimited rail capacity for the purposes of supply. Local limits (per rail line) are still not modelled, which is bad, but at least global shortage affects supply levels globally. It's true that unit movement is limited now, but railing entire infantry armies out of harms way does not look like the Soviet method of fighting to me, and so it's not really bad in my book. Perhaps tweaking rail capacity up a bit, and reserving a bit more for unit movement, is all that's needed now.

Retreat hex selection will be fixed in next patch.

(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 43
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/11/2020 10:56:18 AM   
Gamer64

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/12/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gamer64
I'm finding the new cap to be crippling and I'm really not sure of the rationale.


The rationale was to reduce doubly unlimited rail capacity for the purposes of supply. Local limits (per rail line) are still not modelled, which is bad, but at least global shortage affects supply levels globally. It's true that unit movement is limited now, but railing entire infantry armies out of harms way does not look like the Soviet method of fighting to me, and so it's not really bad in my book. Perhaps tweaking rail capacity up a bit, and reserving a bit more for unit movement, is all that's needed now.

Retreat hex selection will be fixed in next patch.

quote:

The rationale was to reduce doubly unlimited rail capacity for the purposes of supply. Local limits (per rail line) are still not modelled, which is bad, but at least global shortage affects supply levels globally. It's true that unit movement is limited now, but railing entire infantry armies out of harms way does not look like the Soviet method of fighting to me, and so it's not really bad in my book. Perhaps tweaking rail capacity up a bit, and reserving a bit more for unit movement, is all that's needed now.

Retreat hex selection will be fixed in next patch.


Well first and foremost this is a game so the impact on play needs to be considered. Also, the point of the game is not to recreate history but to simulate it. The German way of fighting was "no retreat" as enforced by Hitler. Will that be a new rule enforced by the game? And by your logic it ought to be a reduction for the entire game.

But if you take my point, you didn't stop whole armies being moved out of harms way, as that is what I prioritize and I think others as well, you stopped legitimate reinforcement. Until you can model the difference it is a risky change.

However, the patch has been out for a while and I'm the only one commenting so I assume others don't consider it such a big impact.

Regards,
Gamer

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 44
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/11/2020 12:55:32 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline 		As I suspected I had a few extra units, that used to get away in earler versions, encircled on Turn 3 in my new game because I had no way of railing out them in turn 1 and 2. Not exactly what Stalin needs to hold on to any major cities. :-)

But I didnt change my troop rail capacity on turn 1. I think that might become the new meta with this setup.

Maybe the harsher summer 1941 conditions, evens out with the other advantages USSR gets in the latest patch. I have no idea really.

(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 45
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/11/2020 5:34:36 PM   
Nekronion

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/20/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn

As I suspected I had a few extra units, that used to get away in earler versions, encircled on Turn 3 in my new game because I had no way of railing out them in turn 1 and 2. Not exactly what Stalin needs to hold on to any major cities. :-)

But I didnt change my troop rail capacity on turn 1. I think that might become the new meta with this setup.

Maybe the harsher summer 1941 conditions, evens out with the other advantages USSR gets in the latest patch. I have no idea really.


They do actually, the axis does more damage in the first turn, but then does less afterwards due to logistical limitations.

(in reply to juv95hrn)
Post #: 46
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/12/2020 4:07:02 PM   
Gamer64

 

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Joined: 7/12/2018
Status: offline
quote:

But I didnt change my troop rail capacity on turn 1. I think that might become the new meta with this setup.


I did not realize it could be changed, how is that done please?

Gamer

(in reply to juv95hrn)
Post #: 47
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/12/2020 9:37:28 PM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gamer64

I did not realize it could be changed, how is that done please?

Gamer


Go to the production screen, to the end you can adjust the rail capacity. Every percentage point you change, costs 1 Admin point. So if you wanna increase the percentage from 10% to 20%, you will need to expend 10 Admin Points.

This does however mean that you will get less rail capacity for resupply.


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(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 48
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/12/2020 9:39:28 PM   
Gamer64

 

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Joined: 7/12/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gamer64

I did not realize it could be changed, how is that done please?

Gamer


Go to the production screen, to the end you can adjust the rail capacity. Every percentage point you change, costs 1 Admin point. So if you wanna increase the percentage from 10% to 20%, you will need to expend 10 Admin Points.

This does however mean that you will get less rail capacity for resupply.


quote:

Go to the production screen, to the end you can adjust the rail capacity. Every percentage point you change, costs 1 Admin point. So if you wanna increase the percentage from 10% to 20%, you will need to expend 10 Admin Points.

This does however mean that you will get less rail capacity for resupply.


Thank you

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 49
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/12/2020 9:44:35 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline 		I did not change the setting, and the Axis keep munching up stragglers along the way back. I will very seriously consider doing it in my next game.

(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 50
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/12/2020 10:04:13 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline 		In my current game as Soviets, upping the rail capacity from 10% to 15% on my Turn 2 (5 AP cost, took effect Turn 3) did the trick nicely. I used up the full unit allotment on Turns 3,4, and 5. Turn 6 I had some leftover unit rail cap. Rebuilt units arriving on my Turn 6 and scheduled for the next couple of turns are only 20 or so, and I'll probably turn the unit % back down from 15% to 10 or 12%.

I think these rail changes are both good, and realistic. Historically STAVKA had little or no clue as to actual events occurring on the front lines during the first couple weeks of the invasion. Soviet losses were massive, as they are in-game on turns 1-2. There was no way the Soviets could have organized a massive rail evacuation - in reality, those units were still mobilizing and trying (often without success) to gather the supplies, ammo, and fuel they needed to do anything.

Sure, a Lvov pocket is gamey, but railing out 200,000 troops from the Lvov salient is even more gamey imho.

(in reply to juv95hrn)
Post #: 51
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/13/2020 4:27:23 AM   
ErickRepie

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/6/2019
From: Indonesia
Status: offline 		Hi there,

The detail i had is only screenshot ..next time i will post it.
However its late 1943 ...those Hs 129 and Ju87D-3 can be succeeded with F190 f and Ju87D-5 with not 0 production.
Overall no major issue with 1.12.03 so far.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 52
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/13/2020 2:11:29 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		screenshot + savegame if its from the current game. Otherwise impossible to search for problems

(in reply to ErickRepie)
Post #: 53
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/14/2020 2:33:05 PM   
marius1337

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 3/5/2019
From: Germany
Status: offline 		So if there aren’t any more fixes we will never get them? How much longer do we need to wait till the publishing machine will be turned on? I need my fix please!

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 54
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/20/2020 4:39:35 PM   
peterphy

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/22/2016
Status: offline 		This version is unplayable because of the retreat issue for Soviet forces (in the beginning time). I call it "rope-a-dope", which, instead of being smashed, you hit it all the spaces it retreats to. So it becomes like "whacking moles", but it's the same unit over and over again. This retreat bug has to be fixed - I refuse to play the game if it has this issue.

(in reply to SamSlitherine)
Post #: 55
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/21/2020 5:30:44 PM   
trh2164

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 3/7/2017
Status: offline 		I am with Gamer64 and juv95hrn on the Soviet rail in that it is a game balance issue.

Against a skilled Axis opponent many extra units can be relatively easily trapped on turn 2, in the north as well as south, which causes critical unit density issues later.

What if the Soviet rail setting can be specified at setup, along with the other modifiers at the bottom of the setup screen, so the Soviets can get more on turn 1?

Also, why do the Axis have their full rail for both directions like before? Supplies/fuel are moving east and units are moving east as well so perhaps their rail capacity should be divided too.

(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 56
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 2/22/2020 9:50:42 PM   
Gamer64

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/12/2018
Status: offline 		I have had a chance to play with the new rail settings in the two games I have going. My conclusion is that it is really only an issue on turn 1 as you can change it going forward. I'm experimenting with the correct setting, I think around 15% might do.

However, it is still really painful on turn 1. I suspect that the better the axis player, the more painful it will be. Perhaps a way to set it before play, as suggested above, is a good idea.

Gamer

(in reply to trh2164)
Post #: 57
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 3/7/2020 7:12:19 PM   
OberGeneral

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/9/2018
From: Canada
Status: offline 		When can we expect 1.12.04. Update please.

(in reply to Gamer64)
Post #: 58
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 3/9/2020 11:59:37 PM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		Fliegerkorps and Luftflottes still hold large fuel/supply dumps. I'm not sure of how they return over time, but still on turn 3 they're holding on to 250 or 500 of each. Since airbases are not really carrying airgroup supply, can these supposedly hardcoded numbers be looked at and readjusted? They are costing really disproportionate amounts of trucks to ferry AA around.

(in reply to OberGeneral)
Post #: 59
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Open Beta 1.12.03 - 3/14/2020 2:09:34 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline
quote:


@eskuche

Fliegerkorps and Luftflottes still hold large fuel/supply dumps. I'm not sure of how they return over time, but still on turn 3 they're holding on to 250 or 500 of each. Since airbases are not really carrying airgroup supply, can these supposedly hardcoded numbers be looked at and readjusted? They are costing really disproportionate amounts of trucks to ferry AA around.


Interesting find! Yes, it looks like a left over from earlier versions.

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Post #: 60
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