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Totally tapped out! - 3/4/2020 7:47:12 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I already mentioned Italy tapped out with logistics in mid-1941(unable to build anything!) and now it is October 8th, 1942,and Germany too is totally tapped out with near zero logistics unable to build any combat, Navy or air units.
Yeah-yeah, I know you can disband hard-earned hard-built very experienced combat units if you want to "buy something else" such as 1943 level air superiority interceptors, but something's not right about this.
In my game the Axis was lucky in parrying then destroying, the British desert counteroffensive allowing conquering of the Levant and Middle East. The Caucasus oil was captured with Barbarossa and Russia is far from defeated but the war is going very well, with the fall of Leningrad, Moscow and Gorky. A USA invasion was repelled in North Africa and France remains pristine.
At this stage war production factories remain intact.

Historically, despite serious Allied bombings and the beginning of losing the war, the Germans increased production tremendously through mid-1944.

Both Italy and Germany are totally tapped out unable to produce any new units (other than support units). Very, very odd.
Alvaro please look at this and reconsider more logistics (OKH: "Herr General, you have been winning too fiercely. Please slow down or stop entirely!").
Winning should be winning.


< Message edited by RPKUPK -- 3/4/2020 8:12:33 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/4/2020 7:58:54 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		I will take it into consideration. Some information please.

Who are you playing?
What scenario?

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RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/4/2020 8:11:53 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I am playing Europe 1939 as the Axis historical.
Thank you.

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Post #: 3
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/4/2020 8:52:50 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
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Status: offline 		Who are you playing? A.I., PBEM? Skilled opponent, not skilled opponent?

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Creator Kraken Studios
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Designer Strategic Command
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RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 12:38:10 AM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		AI.
Human vs computer

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Post #: 5
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 1:19:58 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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Status: offline 		Play human vs human it won't happen

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RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 4:51:54 AM   
Meteor2


Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Der Alvaro,

That kind of an answer is nötig sufficient.
The underlying problem is the unflexible cap on logistic.
RPKUPK is right. Logistic capabilities should be dependent on something.
Why not introduce an invest in logistics or buying logistics (to increase it) similar to units.
When the game is going well for the player, the industry is unharmed and there is no real damage by strategic bombing, the logistic should be able to be increased.
And maybe the possibility to bomb infrastructure / logistic should be considered.
Logistic is important and it should be influenceable in both was.



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Post #: 7
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 12:43:30 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Logistics cap is the flexible force pool. Just like SC3 has a capped force pool.

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Creator Kraken Studios
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Designer Strategic Command
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- Assault on Communism SC2
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Post #: 8
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 5:51:49 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		I reviewed the Italian logistics situation and compared it with forces deducting this factor and that factor adding in fun factor. I increased them by 600.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 9
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/5/2020 8:13:39 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		The Duce will be pleased to hear this. The more glorious Italian units, the better

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RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/6/2020 2:36:27 AM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Does this mean Germany gets more logistics too, as you didn't mention Germany?
THAT is the main problem.
I am now almost mid-1943 and except for a handful of Axis allies that still have some logistics left (less than 100) Germany and Italy are completely tapped out for logistics and cannot produce new units! Oh sure if I lose a cavalry unit or a submarine or two then some logistics appears for reuse. But that's the only way, short of wholesaling the army.
Now, Germany is forced to spend 500 - 1000 points from stockpile on anti-aircraft defense, coastal defense, supply trucks, etc.
I think there needs to be added in some factor that if the Axis is doing particularly well, that they are allowed to do particularly well! Rather than cut them off. I mean what's the point of this -- a counterfactual, right?!
Maybe as a minimum a certain level of logistics should be allowed per turn to allow building new advanced weaponry which was historical, but putting some cap on. Enough logistics for at least one combat unit per turn. And like I said, winning is winning rather than winning is losing.
Rather than just adding a set amount of extra logistics, I like the idea of purchasing more logistics or why not put a logistics line on the weapon advancement procurement track -- that the more you put into it the more logistics are available.
Or better, simply just add "logistics" to the 'support units' tab (along with supply trucks, AA and escorts, etc.) -- for purchase, an investment in its own economy!
Yeah this has to change otherwise I'm really not interested in playing the game again. Curious if the Allies tapout on logistics if they do well.
Human versus human, yeah I get it -- that the AI is nowhere near a sufficient opponent, at least on the historical settings, for some accomplished players.

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Post #: 11
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/6/2020 4:09:54 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah. Sure.

Let's have counterfactuals.

If you add to the Axis Logistics cap, DOUBLE or TRIPLE the ALLIED Logistics cap ... fair's fair, after all, and that's realistic ... as, historically, THEY had the capacity to increase far beyond what the Axis did.

But, of course, we're evidently only allowed to have pro-Axis counterfactuals.

Phil

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(in reply to RPKUPK)
Post #: 12
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/6/2020 5:02:23 AM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Or ... if "logistics" is added to the "support units" tab, for purchase, you can make a steepening "cost of doing business" as the war progresses.
When the Axis has begun to win in the game I am playing against the AI there's plenty of oil, plenty of steel, plenty of production and stockpile, plenty of manpower, but near "0" logistics.
BUT(!), it's June 1943, Germany is beating Russia bigly after a successful "Mediterranean strategy," and the Allies have just invaded Western Europe (France) in four spots so ... That logistics sure will be a problem.

< Message edited by RPKUPK -- 3/6/2020 10:25:10 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Totally tapped out! - 3/6/2020 3:07:32 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		All countries have their historical force pool caps + a 15% more about for flexibility.

I noticed Italy was short handed a while ago. So I recalculated them since RPKUPK brought it up.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to RPKUPK)
Post #: 14
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