Sub warfare doctrine

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Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 10:08:48 AM

Chef Chaudard

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/15/2020
Status: offline

I create this thread because I did not find the answer to my problem ...
I play the Allies, and I do not understand the sub warfare doctrine.
I thought that historically, the Allis subs were focusing on transports, cargos and tankers attack, as the japanese one were focusing on combat ships attacks.
In my current game (version 26B), it seems that is exactly the opposite.
I am in July '43, and my sub score is very poor. For instance, an american sub is crossing a japanese convoy with 8 cargos and a PB, and it attacks (anf fails) the PB instead of attacking the cargos.
On the other side, I've got a convoy with 4 cargos and 2 DE as escort, and the jap sub attacks (and sinks) 2 of my cargos.
That seems unhistorical. Is there a way to tune the submarine warfare doctrine for the Allies, in an historical way ?
Thanks for help ! I need it

Post #: 1

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 10:42:46 AM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

No

Sub doctrine was removed from the game:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3187591

(in reply to Chef Chaudard)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 11:01:41 AM

Chef Chaudard

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/15/2020
Status: offline

Thanks for the quick answer !

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 11:51:19 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chef Chaudard

I create this thread because I did not find the answer to my problem ...
I play the Allies, and I do not understand the sub warfare doctrine.
I thought that historically, the Allis subs were focusing on transports, cargos and tankers attack, as the japanese one were focusing on combat ships attacks.
In my current game (version 26B), it seems that is exactly the opposite.
I am in July '43, and my sub score is very poor. For instance, an american sub is crossing a japanese convoy with 8 cargos and a PB, and it attacks (anf fails) the PB instead of attacking the cargos.
On the other side, I've got a convoy with 4 cargos and 2 DE as escort, and the jap sub attacks (and sinks) 2 of my cargos.
That seems unhistorical. Is there a way to tune the submarine warfare doctrine for the Allies, in an historical way ?
Thanks for help ! I need it

Those results have nothing to do with "sub doctrine".

Firstly it is a myth that the Japanese had an overall doctrine which focused exclusively on enemy combatants. In the first 6 months of the war Japanese subs sank many Allied merchant ships. IN AE it is up to the players themselves how they determine their subs should be used.

Secondly, whether a sub TF shoots at combatants or merchants is dependent on various factors, chief amongst them being individual ship detection levels, and leader ratings. To the mix add randoms.

Alfred

(in reply to Chef Chaudard)

Post #: 4

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 12:16:31 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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As Alfred said. I place my subs where I feel they will find the most targets. Such as choke points. You should exchange out your captain's as well. I use aggressive ones....GP

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Post #: 5

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 12:27:36 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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I have sunk loads of Japanese tankers by placing subs near oil production centers and chokepoints.

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Post #: 6

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 4:01:40 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chef Chaudard

For instance, an american sub is crossing a japanese convoy with 8 cargos and a PB, and it attacks (anf fails) the PB instead of attacking the cargos.

Thanks for help ! I need it

PBs are slow. If there's only one and you sink it, the convoy is wide open for destruction. You will be able to use your deck gun. If the opportunity presents, always take out the sole escort.

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Post #: 7

RE: Sub warfare doctrine - 3/15/2020 4:33:02 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

Both sides had spectacular successes against warships. The Indianapolis, the Yorktown and the Shinano are examples. IJN doctrine usually had subs deploying ahead of the KB. It is true that the sub war was not exactly like the one with the Unterseeboots in the Atlantic, but the Pacific is vast in comparison and the potential routes of Allied shipping much less restricted than in the Atlantic. The Japanese Empire is full of shipping of resources to the Home Islands and the routes are narrow. There is virtually no Allied shipping of resources in the Pacific aside from pineapples and bananas. Troop and supply convoys are the targets and they are headed to Pearl, NZ, Sydney and Karachi and possibly (but don't count on it) to Perth. Routes from the West Coast will mostly make a turn somewhere around Christmas Island. Interdict fuel shipments from the West Coast successfully and you will absolutely slow down the Americans. Lying in wait for naval TFs on both sides is problematic both in selecting ambush points and overcoming the escorts. Patrol off Pearl, SF and LA and expect ASW TFs to find you.

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(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 8