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Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/28/2020 8:02:44 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Just recently picked up TOAW IV, having never owned any of the prequels. Played around a bit to see how the interface works and what buttons do what but that is about it as far as my TOAW experience goes. It will be a learning game for me, I have read on these forums quite a lot about the game but no better learning then to strike off and play a scenario. The goal is to get lurkers like myself to chime in with questions and answers as I play through the turns. So here goes, I will be starting turn 1 now and will update as soon as I can. Will be playing the Russo-German war 1941-1945 and will be playing as the Germans against Elmer the PO. Chose this scenario after reading Hellen S.’s AAR playing this same scenario. This is my first game with TOAW IV so bare with me as I will probably mess things up but good.
Post #: 1
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/28/2020 8:11:51 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Welcome and good luck.

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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 2:23:00 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Thanks for the welcome
I will try to keep the comments on my opening moves short as I don’t think I am breaking any new ground here.
The plan in the North is to take Kaunas as soon as possible, then move towards Daugavpils. I will have to
cross the Dvina River at some point and plan on doing so at Daugavpils, Riga and Jekabpils. Getting across
the Dvina quickly is the overall short term goal at this time and I do not want to let the Russians build
up at these crossing points.
A second group of troops will be heading toward Siauliai first, and then Riga. I am thinking that most of
my forces in the area will cross the Dvina River at Riga, or at least this is the plan for now.
A small force will hug the coast and take the long route to Riga, clearing away the Russians as they find them.





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< Message edited by DownNOut -- 3/29/2020 2:26:49 AM >

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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 2:30:25 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		In the centre my guys are going to make their way due east and meet up at Minsk. I will be trying not
to get everyone heading toward Minsk all at once, using the same route, do not want a traffic jam
when I get there.
I will be sending a few units through the marshes to hopefully mop up any Russians in there. What
to do when they reach Gomel is quite a ways off in my planning at this time.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 2:38:11 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		The plan down South is to take the towns on the border of the marshes starting with Lutsk.
Then continue east/southeast with the marshes as my flank protection.
The main objective in the south is first Lvov then Tarnopol. I feel that I need to secure a good rail
line in the south and this route is as good as any of them.
I wonder how fragile the Romanians are in this scenario? It looks like they have a large Russian
force to deal with on their own as I do not see many German units down there to help.





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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 2:40:24 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		What looks to be the toughest opening fight is the taking of Brest-Litovsk and the removal of
the Russian units from the surrounding area. The river is impassable except over the few bridges
that are here but using them would use up valuable movement points. I will use the Pioneers of
the 18th Pz Div and the 507th Pioneers to cross the river and ferry troops where I want to attack
from. Hitting the city from three sides is the goal. Then I plan to break out toward Baranavichy on
the way to Minsk. This leads to my first question; what is the bonus for attacking a hex from
multiple sides in a Planned Attack? Not too much opportunity to do it at the start but I can see
it coming into play later on.

Overall I plan on avoiding Planned Attacks and focusing on overruns for the first phase of the
turn. Will be trying to herd the Russians into stacks where possible and doing the planned attacks
only when needed. I will also be bombarding with every available unit in all phases of the turn for
the first couple of turns and see what kind of effects it has on the enemy. I have an understanding
of how time works in the game and I feel that I do not want to waste time on battling with units
that could be moving.
Ok, I’m off to play the next couple of turns.....

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Post #: 6
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 10:59:42 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

what is the bonus for attacking a hex from
multiple sides in a Planned Attack?

See 13.13, then see 3.3.1

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Post #: 7
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 7:31:37 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		The beginning of Turn 04

The Northern forces are on the verge of completing my short term objectives. I was attacked at Jelgava then the enemy backed off, no casualties of any significance there. Infantry is lagging behind across the front as they are on mop up duty.
I find myself struggling to use my mobile forces effectively as there seems to be no real ability to pocket the enemy as in WitE. At the moment I have them trying to engage the enemy mobile forces and armour as well as weaker targets like AA units. This leaves the infantry to mop up what is left behind. I think this is the way to go but it does seem to take a fair bit of time.
Another niggling issue that I have is the difference in movement points between an infantry division’s main body and the HQ units. It makes movement a bit of a pain trying to keep everyone together.
There are three crossing points on the Dvina River and I am going to go for all three. Siauliai is in German possession, so now it Riga in the main sights.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 7:35:12 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		My Centre finds itself in much the same position as the North is in with my infantry mopping up enemy units all along the front lines. I was unable to get my Mobile divisions running forward too far as the Russians seem to be in every town and looking for a fight. No counterattacks here but stubborn resistance seems to be the words of the day.
Minsk is the main goal for the Centre. Most of the units in the Centre will be heading in that direction with a small token force making their way through the marshes and see what hides in there. Seems like a good job for the kavalry and a couple of infantry divisions.
There are some rails to repair now and I know that I read somewhere about how to do it but can’t quite remember where. I have my RR Repair units starting to spread out and train to the rail sections in need of repair, then they will disembark and hopefully repair the rails. Load back on the trains and do it again.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 7:45:17 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Here at Bialystok is a typical example of the problems I am facing. Russian mobile forces are spread out on the map and stop the advance of my mobile forces. Then I have to try to disengage without getting attacked as I leave their Zone of Control or I will have to try to take care of them with my mobile forces. Been hitting everything I can with my artillery as often as the turns allow it but the results are not encouraging for the most part. I will keep this up and see if there is any real pattern to the bombardment vs losses of the enemy. Right now I would say that I am averaging 2-4% enemy casualties from my artillery, but I will be switching over to see if more concentrated fire on fewer targets might be the way to go. It is still early and am getting a handle on my own mobile units and how to deal with them, kind of....




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/29/2020 7:47:26 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		My Southern force is in the worst condition as far as getting to their objectives. Lots of stubborn Russian units and more then a few counterattacks have our units on a slow advance. The good news is that the infantry is pretty much caught up with the mobile forces. Both Lutsk and Lvov are in our hands and Tarnopol is next on the hit list.
Hats off to Elmer on picking off any unit of mine that is remotely away from the group. Lots of Russian armor here to deal with and the Russians are intent on being aggressive in this part of the map.
I should be able to get my mobile forces out and running once the Russian counterattacks have stopped. Had to deal with lots of enemy armor around Brody but now all looks clear.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/30/2020 4:14:07 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		You're doing great. Keep up the good work. Thanks for the AAR. Are you including any CS in your attacks? Have you destroyed the Soviet air force yet?

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Post #: 12
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 3/30/2020 6:25:58 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		I am trying to use more CS in my attacks. Just trying to figure out how effective they are when used in conjunction with infantry and tanks.
As for destroying the Russian air force, that is a bit of an unknown somewhat. I have been hammering away at them since the beginning, but they still seem to crop up every turn or two and create a little trouble.

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Post #: 13
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 12:46:13 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		So I am pushing along on all fronts when I stop to see how my supply is looking,.... I see that I am down to single digits across the board on my leading units. My question is with Kiev in sight should I press the attack or wait for the RR repairs to catch up? After reading that I should keep the repair units in stacks of 4, it will take about 10+ turns for them to reach the lead offensive units. Do you think that this will put me at a real disadvantage to wait for the RR repairs? What is a good minimum supply number that I should have to keep the troops happy and healthy?




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 12:52:32 AM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		As for my infantry losses, I am running about even with losses equaling replacements.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 12:55:49 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Is there any way to see accumulated enemy losses so far?

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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 1:32:32 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DownNOut
So I am pushing along on all fronts when I stop to see how my supply is looking,.... I see that I am down to single digits across the board on my leading units. My question is with Kiev in sight should I press the attack or wait for the RR repairs to catch up? After reading that I should keep the repair units in stacks of 4, it will take about 10+ turns for them to reach the lead offensive units. Do you think that this will put me at a real disadvantage to wait for the RR repairs? What is a good minimum supply number that I should have to keep the troops happy and healthy?

When a unit is out of supply for more than one turn my understanding is that the unit will begin to suffer detremental effects like disertion ( when the number of assigned equipment will decline slowly ). Each hex must supply every unit in it by the amount of supply that hex is worth ( turn on the supply bubbles to see the values ). Some hexes are zero and supply nothing at all to any unit in it. Those are to be avoided. When units are overextended they begin to suffer pestilence effects. You can find your side's overextended supply threshold in the Situation Briefing on the reports tab. I've got my B41 mod set to 0 for that value so that the Axis side never suffers pestilence even when the units are out of supply.

As to your particular situation I would say push on as well as you can without running your units lower than about 50%, which means stay in the hexes that are producing some supply and avoid the ones that are less than 2 or so. You may have to spend a turn or two not moving or shooting to save up enough supply to move and / or shoot.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/1/2020 1:33:05 AM >

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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 1:39:01 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Is there any way to see accumulated enemy losses so far?

There is in WITE but alas, not in TOAW IV. Yet. There would be a barrel full of data to add to the save game file ( representing the [ date / location / losses of each type of equipment lost this turn / losses of each type of equipment accumulated from each turn ] but it's certainly doable. I'm not sure it's on the wishlist for future versions of the game engine but with enough interest in it from us the community perhaps it could be a future feature.

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Post #: 18
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 2:54:46 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Thanks Larry for the advice. I held up for one turn, but now will continue with the advance. Will have to check to see which units are at 50% supply

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Post #: 19
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 7:48:37 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Going to slow down across all fronts as supply is down to 40% or so with my mobile forces even lower on average. I wish there was a way to get the RR repairs happening a little quicker. I have them in three groups of 4 but this only moves the repairs 10km per turn and only on one line.
With improving my supply here in the north in mind, I will make the next objective Pskov. Will be trying to attack from two directions. The SS Polizei Division will come in from the west while the bulk of my forces will sweep east then head due north and try to take out the defenders one by one.
There is a bit of a problem at Opochka with the SS Totenkopf Division and the 6th Pz Division being exposed to three Russian Divisions. There is a relief force heading their way but they will have to hang on by themselves for a couple turns. Will check out my offensive capabilities then will likely just dig in and wait for help.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 7:53:08 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Minsk has just about come under German control. Only a few stragglers left to clear from the centre of town.
Will be starting a slow march on toward Orsha next. It is pretty much a straight shot to Orsha down the central Rail line and roads. This will mean a lot of repairs will be needed. Can't help but think this is going to slow me down a lot.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/1/2020 7:57:46 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Kiev seems so close yet so far. will be trying the same tactic as with Pskov. Will be trying to cross the River south of Kiev then swing north and take the defenders one at a time. This is the plan anyhow.
First I have to deal with the never ending Russian Tank Divisions that Elmer keeps placing in the way of my advance.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 5:09:10 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		The attack on Pskov is coming along. Russians are throwing everything at the attacks but I am able to hold on to the new ground I’ve taken. Been shelling them with lots of artillery which is a slow process but it is draining their strength somewhat.
There was a small Russian counterattack north of Tartu but have managed to keep it in check. Now for the push back.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 5:10:15 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Had to hold up with my mobile forces everywhere but especially here in the centre. Their health is down to 40% and supply is low. It takes quite a bit of time for them to recover at this rate. They are all dug in and awaiting the RR repair teams to get a little closer. Infantry is still pushing along slowly.




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 5:15:44 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		A quick shot of the south. Not much has changed, Russians still throwing tank divisions at me non-stop. Supply a real issue here as well but am going to start pressing toward Kiev now.
With my mobile forces at very low supply and health I have chosen to not venture out too far with them at this time. I am keeping them together so that Elmer does not get any bright ideas to come in and test their strength. RR repairs are coming along, a bit slowly but moving forward every turn. I do have a question that I am not able to find in the manual, what is that little cyan coloured number I get in my attack hex sometimes when I attack with artillery?




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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 6:41:51 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1990
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DownNOut

I do have a question that I am not able to find in the manual, what is that little cyan coloured number I get in my attack hex sometimes when I attack with artillery?


Not sure what you mean, about the cyan coloured number ... can you zoom in on it?

Thanks for this AAR, am following with great interest. I am playing Soviets against PO Germans at the moment, this is a fun scene. Okay, well, thanks again!

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Post #: 26
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 6:52:44 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		This is what I get when I order some artillery attacks.
How goes your game as the Russian side?




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< Message edited by DownNOut -- 4/3/2020 6:56:17 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 7:14:35 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1990
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Still not seeing the cyan color you mentioned so I cannot answer that ... but my effort in this same scene ver. 1-3 as Soviets against PO Germans is going pretty fun, I tried to use an ad hoc Soviet strategy to "confuse" Elmer and it has worked out pretty good for me so far (I still hold Leningrad and Moscow and Southern Front has stymied Germans pretty much as of turn 33) major gains for Soviets so far is Galician Oil Fields and Bucharest / Belgrade, I have notice lots of Germans going West instead of East, I think maybe designer might think about putting more "guards" garrisoned on the points back East, but as stands I find it pretty fun to play as Soviets versus the PO as Germans. Ongoing AAR for that is found in link below, is two page pdf file so far Okay, well, not trying to hijack your thread, I am following it with great interest. I tried playing Axis too (ver 1-1) and was trounced by Soviet PO and surrendered at turn 200 or so (aar is here in this forum somewhere) now am trying to play Soviets this time. Have a great gaming day!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bHo_wKU9nHLxsMH2qCcMrCQ7GEsBM1q4

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RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 8:35:49 PM   
DownNOut


Posts: 43
Joined: 7/18/2019
Status: offline 		Yes I read your AAR, you will have to try another one as the Germans. I am just trying to make it past turn 20 in this one. Learning alot as I go. Have made several mistakes that will probably come back to bite me. Russians seem to come in waves. If you come through a wave alright then you have 2-3 turns of little resistance. Then another wave.

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Post #: 29
RE: Russo-German War 1941-1945 - 4/3/2020 11:35:55 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1990
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		One thing I have noticed about Computer Player Elmer is, in general, if you do not attack him he will not attack you. E.g. keep interdiction down, he will not interdict as much. In some areas, he will not attack if you do not attack (gives you chance to supply, then attack later)

This is not always true, sometimes he will attack regardless, but in general Elmer follows your lead, at least in many instances and in many areas in my games against PO

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 4/3/2020 11:36:56 PM >

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