Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

OK, I'll try to get back on topic by asking RFalvo69 (who appears to be online) for his prediction about the possibility of Italians demanding that Italy leaves the EU and how soon he sees it happening.

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I will say this started out as very informative.

I will say that there is still informative material being presented.

I will also say that the bull manure now greatly outweighs the informative material.

Durned Wolf: I apologize for seeming to imply that California is not the most perfect and well run state in the Union. Having lived there for several years in the scenic and lush town of Trona certainly gives me no right to say anything about California.

Mind Messing - green buttoned. I have never done that to anyone but you are simply an ass. It is a shame that your comments will be quoted by some and therefore still visible.

Yes, I never post much. It has never really been worth the effort.

CanoeRebel - sorry your effort to have a sane place to post about this crisis has now become a crisis in itself. Such is the nature of state of the rabble of humanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

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The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

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This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

No. Only those supported by hard scientific facts.

quote:


The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

I gather that one of these emergencies was "There will be a pandemic".

In 2003 the SARS scare was derided. "The doomsayers expected a pandemy. We are still all here, LOL!" It turned out that it was a shot across the bow.

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This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

Politics? While this emergency has been politicised (which is a totally different thing), check what the USA and Russia are factually doing in the Artic, and then guess what made this possible. Pro tip: not politics.

If you want other sources I can provide them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

I take exception with your gentrified portrayal of a young fascist shouting at politicians to put their backs against a wall as a mere kid who is a bit worried.

The self same planetary doomsayers have been crying wolf since the 1970s and not a single dire prediction has come to pass.

The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

OK, I'll try to get back on topic by asking RFalvo69 (who appears to be online) for his prediction about the possibility of Italians demanding that Italy leaves the EU and how soon he sees it happening.

Well, I actually went to sleep with my computer on

I don't see Italy leaving the EU. Even returning to our old money, the Lira, would simply cause a Weimar Republic-level inflation.

What about aid?

Yes, the BCE bought tons of Government Bonds from the hardest hit counties during the Coronavirus crisis. This move enjoyed universal acclaim: the interests on borrowed money were strongly reduced, thus allowing these countries to spend more in the fight against the virus.

But there is an elephant in the room. There is a strong resistance by the "rich" countries (Germany, France, Austria, the Scandinavia’s countries etc) to issue Eurobonds. The fear is that the "Second Division" members of the EU (Italy, Spain, Greece...) will not be able to repay the investment. This would force these countries to cover the deficit by taxing their population, and no politician will ever want that. No German citizen will ever pay taxes to cover, let's say, Italy's inability to fight our gigantor level of tax evasion.

Truth is: Italy has lost her credibility. The EU is factually demonstrating how some key members have no more faith in us.

So, right now the EU is weakening Italy's social tissue and increasing internal political polarization.

Even worse, this emergency brought to light another inconvenient truth: there is no EU. What we call European Union only the sum of the internal interests of a group of very different countries - whose politicians care about the wellbeing of their own country, not of the whole Union.

Thus the EU is doing its best to show the endemic problems in the Eurozone, and, by doing so, they are actually promoting the nationalist/populist sentiments ("Make Italy Great Again!", "Let's Take Back Our Country!"... You know the gist). Any nationalist, right now, can appear on TV and say "See? The EU is not the source of help that they promised, for these reasons". And he would be right. It is not even a political view: it is a fact.

However, fun fact: Italy is too big to fail. If Italy fails the Eurozone will crumble. So, is the EU stupid? No, this fact is well known. But this is where the ugly head of modern politics appears: the inability to plan, to prepare for the far future. A saying says "A good politician is a man who plants a tree knowing that he will never enjoy its shadow". Today's politicians show you the missing tree and blame (feel free to choose: the EU, the immigrants, those who don't pay their taxes, the opposition, various but not you of course).

This pandemic was totally predicted. In 2015 it was a disaster bound to happen in a span of two decades. Did someone do something to prepare for it? No. No one in the World. "Who cares about what could happen in two decades? We could be already dead anyway! Right now we must find a solution to give brioches to our population".

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

Will we learn the importance of long plans from COVID-19? What about the EU "experiment"? And the Italian debt?

I truly don't know. But I do know one thing: we are not planning for our sons and daughters' future. What this makes of us?

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ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

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ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

I don't wear a mask at home or out in the garden but at work, absolutely and if I have to go to the grocery store...I make the Dominican baseball player good luck sign and wear a mask and gloves then I carefully take off the gloves hooking my little gloved finger under the exterior heel of the other glove, inverting it, then using the inverted glove as protection, repeat the process on the other glove and drop both gloves in the open bag which i have purposely left open on the rear hatch of the snazzy 380 hp Stinger II BEFORE I went in the store. I close the pre-taped disposable bag with the contaminated gloves and put in the trash (or if not available it goes into the hatchback for dispoasal at home.) The mask goes into an unsealed paper bag to lay fallow for 3 days and be reused. I open the front door and back hatch with my "clean" hands and put the alcohol gel on the roof...then lift the grocery bags into the hatchback with one or two fingers in the handle. Then apply the gel all the way to the elbows and let dry. Then you get in the car and drive home leaving the reading glasses on till you get home and can wash your glasses and hands again with soap and water.

Completely neurotic sounding but it is the kind of thing if you gloves are covered in blood or amniotic fluid or pus.

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ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Yes, or any cheesy material from the reproductive tract, urine, feces, saliva etc.

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ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Yes, or any cheesy material from the reproductive tract, urine, feces, saliva etc.

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ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

I don't wear a mask at home or out in the garden but at work, absolutely and if I have to go to the grocery store...I make the Dominican baseball player good luck sign and wear a mask and gloves then I carefully take off the gloves hooking my little gloved finger under the exterior heel of the other glove, inverting it, then using the inverted glove as protection, repeat the process on the other glove and drop both gloves in the open bag which i have purposely left open on the rear hatch of the snazzy 380 hp Stinger II BEFORE I went in the store. I close the pre-taped disposable bag with the contaminated gloves and put in the trash (or if not available it goes into the hatchback for dispoasal at home.) The mask goes into an unsealed paper bag to lay fallow for 3 days and be reused. I open the front door and back hatch with my "clean" hands and put the alcohol gel on the roof...then lift the grocery bags into the hatchback with one or two fingers in the handle. Then apply the gel all the way to the elbows and let dry. Then you get in the car and drive home leaving the reading glasses on till you get home and can wash your glasses and hands again with soap and water.

Completely neurotic sounding but it is the kind of thing if you gloves are covered in blood or amniotic fluid or pus.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Yes, or any cheesy material from the reproductive tract, urine, feces, saliva etc.

Yes, that also sounds like Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) training.

A question about the mask, would putting them in direct sunlight help decontaminate them? The UV rays get blocked by glass but I understand that the UV radiation should kill the virus. Also, black light time wearing appropriate UV blocking, wrap around sunglasses to protect against cataracts?

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“After the SARS outbreak calmed down, what they found out is that 29 percent of the people in quarantine experienced symptoms of PTSD [Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder], and this is really critical because we might see some of these same effects around the world today,” Fisher said.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, Sammy, I understand the point he's making but it's wrong. Any American who shows up at an emergency room will be treated. Basically every American knows that (there are minimal exceptions). While some people may be reluctant to see care for some reasons, including economic, the fear from this pandemic is almost sure to overcome that. There will be very few Americans who aren't treated for Covid-19.

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

What you wanna bet that there won't be 25% of Americans not receiving treatment for Covid-19? I bet 98% will. The other 2% (or whatever it happens to be) will likely be those who expire before they realized the severity or otherwise didn't seek medical attention. Everybody else, rich or poor, black and white and brown and red and yellow, conservative and progressive, athiest or religious, will receive medical care.

I think the problem is that it is very difficult to prove either way.

If you follow mind_messings viewpoint then potentially many of the most impoverished Americans will die of COV-19 at home having never accessed healthcare in the first place and potentially never being tested post-mortem. That supposition is impossible to prove either way at this point although I guess in the fullness of time looking at 'excess mortality' statistics might give an insight.

As before I'm not taking sides - just pointing out that the two of you will get nowhere with arguing about that point in particular and most likely with your dispute in general.

Mate I think you are both right to block each other as it seems from an outsider's perspective that you both have 'history' that is making what is already a very thorny topic impossible to negotiate.

I'll ask just one question - not rhetorical as I genuinely don't know the answer. If somebody spends 14 days in hospital (with say 4 days in critical care) in the US, how much is their bill likely to be at the end of it if they don't have health insurance?

It would cost nothing if they were poor enough. I know someone who spent seventeen days in the hospital, including several days in isolation but no ICU. At first, a RN, a LPN, and an aide. Then just a RN and an aide for care. Then, 16.5+ months in a nursing home with therapy. Then, 14 months in assisted living. The first 2 days in the hospital were covered by an organization that I won't name here. The only thing paid by that individual was the room and board part of the assisted living. This also covered some surgeries as well. No or little payments for drugs either.

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

This is where many "in charge" are getting the info to base their decisions on.

Covid Act Now

https://covidactnow.org/

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Expert offers tips on caring for mental health during coronavirus pandemic

quote:

“After the SARS outbreak calmed down, what they found out is that 29 percent of the people in quarantine experienced symptoms of PTSD [Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder], and this is really critical because we might see some of these same effects around the world today,” Fisher said.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/accuweather-ready/expert-offers-tips-on-caring-for-mental-health-during-pandemic/711053

So if you can, get out into the sun and enjoy life!