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Back to bombing - 4/7/2020 3:16:03 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Okay, back to bombing. With version 06 change, there is a chance of causing a strength loss on the bombed unit on the first bombing, and thereafter, bombing causes a drop in effectiveness of the enemy unit. What kind of effectiveness drop are we talking about? 5%? 10%? More, less?
And how does weather affect drop in effectiveness?
Post #: 1
RE: Back to bombing - 4/7/2020 4:43:19 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Yes if you score hits there is a chance of strength loss.

The effectiveness lost is based on the damage done regardless if it was applied.

So say you have a support group and it hits for 5 points but zero popup on the screen as damage. They still take 5 points of effectiveness loss equivalent which I believe is 2% per hit with diminishing returns down to 50% effectiveness.

The damage popup is for actual damage. In reality only the defender should know how bad they were hit. But it does show in a lowered effectiveness rate.

Generally each unit should be air struck once or twice for maximum effectiveness if say you have 2 planes in range. Then attacked twice using the remaining operation points as ground support.



_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to RPKUPK)
Post #: 2
RE: Back to bombing - 4/7/2020 4:53:39 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Hmm ... Only 2%?! Negligible. Hardly worth the often times one or more friendly air losses for the attack.
OK. Thanks.

Let me ask you this since we're talking about bombing, Axis (Europe: early Italy Option, May 1942) bombed a British headquarters in southwest England near Cardiff and sometimes there are significant friendly air losses(1-4) by interception(?) during the bombing attack. Now the closest enemy air unit or air field is 10 hexes away in northern England! How is that possible considering fighter range (6)?!

< Message edited by RPKUPK -- 4/7/2020 5:25:42 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 3
RE: Back to bombing - 4/7/2020 6:34:11 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		2% per damage hit not in total. So if you have 4 hits it is an auto 8% even if it shows ZERO damage on the popup. I know this mechanism works because I tested air campaigns in Sicily for 3 turns straight then I check the results and the units are lower in effectiveness.

Sometimes it is AA, sometimes it is fighters. If you are over enemy territory you tend to take slightly more losses as opposed to your own. A.I. generally picks escort fighters as it's tech for air supers

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to RPKUPK)
Post #: 4
RE: Back to bombing - 4/14/2020 4:29:40 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Yes if you score hits there is a chance of strength loss.


Do you mean that every air attack on ground units (whether from a Tactical Air Group or Ground Attack Group) has a chance of causing strength loss? If so, what's the % chance? Is this the same for bombing runs vs. airfields?

quote:


The effectiveness lost is based on the damage done regardless if it was applied.


Not sure I understand what you mean - do you mean that there is always some effectiveness loss on the target, regardless whether any actual strength loss occurs?

quote:


Generally each unit should be air struck once or twice for maximum effectiveness if say you have 2 planes in range. Then attacked twice using the remaining operation points as ground support.


In the above example, is it better to perform the air strikes with a Tactical Air Group (in Mission-only mode), then to use a Ground Attack Group (in Full Support mode) to support the ground attack(s). Or does it not really matter which type of air unit does what, as long as they have the range?




< Message edited by OxfordGuy3 -- 4/14/2020 5:50:11 PM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 5
RE: Back to bombing - 4/14/2020 6:17:34 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		#1 Only the 1st time a unit is attacked it has a chance of causing a strength loss. The chance depends on a complex formula but usually it is 3 strength loss at best under optimal conditions with an average 50% experience ground attack air group vs a 50% experience land unit. Usually it is 0-2.

#2 Every air attack inflicts damage. Only the 1st air attack hits strength. After that it inflicts ZERO strength damage. But it still inflicts effectiveness damage. So if you fly 6 air missions at a land unit you will cause it's effectiveness to go down from each attack. This has diminishing returns the lower their effectiveness is. You can never reduce a land unit below 50% effectiveness from air attacks alone. Now if say you spend 3-4 turns just bombing the crap out of the Normandy area in 1944 you will see ~25% effectiveness drop in the land units from such a pounding assuming multiple air attacks on each target. But little strength damage if they are entrenched and in good terrain that provides air cover.

#3 Totally depends. Do you want to keep ground attack back to support land attacks? Or do you want to use them in air strikes? Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. But the 1st air strike on a land unit is the most effective point for point. The advantages of the longer range tactical group is that you don't have to move it around and it covers a larger area for ground support on the enemy turn. It is also more durable. The ground attack unit has more firepower.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 6
RE: Back to bombing - 4/14/2020 9:07:52 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Thanks Alvaro, think that all makes sense now!


(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 7
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