Can you turn off the

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Can you turn off the

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Can you turn off the - 7/23/2003 1:09:18 AM

daddog

Posts: 64
Joined: 1/31/2003
From: California
Status: offline

IJN sub doctrine in the middle of a PBEM game? My opponent is more than willing to let me try. My IJN subs never shoot at anything. With it off it makes all the difference in the world but like a goof I had it on for our game. Can I turn if off after we have started the game or am I stuck with underwater transports? :rolleyes:

Did they only shoot at transports during the war that did not have escorts?
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CO daddog
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Noses in the wind since 1997.

[I]A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.[/I] - Baltasar Gracian

Post #: 1

- 7/23/2003 1:32:38 AM

Jocko

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/27/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

"Did they only shoot at transports during the war that did not have escorts?"

Well, I'm not as informed on IJN sub activities as I am on the USN, but....

I believe IJN sub commanders were allowed to shoot at anything they wanted to, but were given orders on how many torpedoes to shoot at a target type. Merchantmen were allowed only one torpedo. While a carrier could get a slavo of 6 or more.

The big flaw in IJN (historically) sub policies is where their subs were deployed. They were basically used as fleet scouts and were transports. Because of this, they weren't in many positions to shoot at merchantmen. UV tries to recreate this by decreasing the chance of IJN subs attacking merchantmen.

I personally think that a better method would be to have fewer/more IJN subs in theatre to simulate policy deployment. More subs in theatre to recreate history (they were deployed to the combat action) or less subs in theatre to create an unrestricted sub policy (deployed to the West Coast to attack merchantmen)

But, to be honest, this game does a great job on this subject. The player will use the subs to their best purpose, so the code to reduce attacks on merchantmen is probably the best solution anyway.

This game and this forum is the best thing to hit my computer in 15 years. I used to think I was a history buff. I pale in comparison to most of you guys.

(in reply to daddog)

Post #: 2

Re: Can you turn off the - 7/23/2003 2:22:05 AM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daddog
[B]IJN sub doctrine in the middle of a PBEM game? My opponent is more than willing to let me try. My IJN subs never shoot at anything. With it off it makes all the difference in the world but like a goof I had it on for our game. Can I turn if off after we have started the game or am I stuck with underwater transports? :rolleyes:

Did they only shoot at transports during the war that did not have escorts?
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[/quote]

I'm afraid not. Once you set preferences they are locked for the duration of that PBEM.

Jocko pretty much called it correct. The major flaw in IJN sub "doctorine" was in their deployment more so than in how they fought. Japanese sub commanders were perfectly willing to take on merchant targets if so ordered and/or if the opportunity presented itself. The Japanese did conduct several comerce hunting forways off the eastern seaboard of Austrailia, the US West Coast and the Indian ocean during the war.

However for much of the war, the Sixth Fleet was subject to the whims and fancies of the Combined fleet and sent off on warship hunting picket lines and to the sixth's great misfortune, transport runs during the period covered by UV.

As far as tactical doctorine is concerned. Early war IJN captains suffered much the same problems that plauged USN sub commanders, mainly a certain timidity in the face of organzied TF's + not as much emphasis on anti-ASW tactics.

I used to play with the option "on" but now play with it "off". My deployment should govern how my subs choose their targets, not this artificial aid. The tactical problems I mentioned still exist though, and using IJN subs offensively in areas where there is substantial ASW remains risky.

A good suggestion that was made and one i agree with is that subs should be changed so that they do not go after SC hunter-killer groups. A bit of a game-ism IMO not to mention its hardly worth the effort + most torps would run under any SC.

Right now though the only thing you can do to prevent this is not deploy your subs near an allied base.

(in reply to daddog)

Post #: 3

- 7/23/2003 5:31:39 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline

Use of IJN subs should be left to player appreciation. So I play with doctrine off.

Subs may be used in five ways :

_ minelayers: a waste of time in my mind, given the distance between Truk and the Allied bases. I used to load fresh subs arriving in Truk with mines, send them to an Allied base and then come back to an IJN base for loading torpedoes. Now I stoll load mines but send them to an IJN base in Solomons or NG direct, where they lay a small defensive field and then load torpedoes for patrol. For extensive defensive minelaying, IJN has plenty of ML that are faster and carry far more mines.

_ transports: could be useful in 1943, when ASW Allied will be far too much good to risk forays in enemy spce and LBA too deadly for ships to go under it.

_ merchant raiding : waiting near Allied ports or on convoy routes. Subs may sink ships but the main impact is that the Allied should commit warships to protect convoys and hunt subs in "safe" waters and he should use convoy. Subs like to attack lonely transport or unescorted convoys.

_ Combined fleet support. Before sending south with your CV, sending a sub patrol line 15 hex and some days in advance is a good idea. They can provide intelligence by meeting enemy TF and after battles they can chase cripples. The only way to sink CV with subs in UV AFAIK.

_ defensive duties : having subs patroling near or at your base to intercept bombardement, invasion or FT TF. Especially efficient against FT. I use this also when I invade an enemy base, to protect my ships and troops against enemy ships.

In the first months of 1942, my subs do only merchant raidings and occasionnal cripple chasing. Then in late summer/fall, with Allied ASW rising, their main task is Combined fleet support. In 1943, transport and defence. In late 1942 and in 1943, from time to time a sub will go in Allied waters see if the ASW defences are still there.

The difference of doctrine between USN and IJN should be seen in numbers of subs available: IJN use them mainly in combat aeras, either against warships or transports or to carry supplies and troops, while USN use them mainly against the merchant shipping north of UV aera. So IJN should have more subs than USN in UV aera.

The 'sub doctrine' game to ignore merchant ships you meet is inappropriate. This doctrine will only give the numbers of subs that may meet this ship here.

(in reply to daddog)

Post #: 4