Airpower is that weak ??

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Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 8:40:06 PM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
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Playing Axis by end 39, I've invaded Denmark and put there 1 FB Air and 2 Tac Air forces. I then proceed to invaded Norway,using a nice Clear weather turn ... but the French Navy (4BB 1CA at least) then appears just west of the Skarregak, intercepts and destroy the whole KM!
My airforce did nothing ... and on next turn I use all my airforce OPs to attack the enemy fleet ... and do 0 damage !!
WTF ? 400+ planes attacking old BBs and 0 hits ? did I had just bad luck or is airpower totally inefficient against ships ?
IRL never a fleet would have ventured so close to that much landbased airpower, or would have been destroyed ...

Post #: 1

RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 8:43:16 PM

Dalwin

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Joined: 3/31/2005
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FB and TAC are both weak against ships. Need to have either CAS or medium bombers with naval training. Even these latter are not strong early in the war, but become deadly later. I am speaking in historical terms and not necessarily game terms, but I would not expect the at start units you mentioned to do much at all against that French fleet.

(in reply to PDiFolco)

Post #: 2

RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 8:47:33 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

WTF ? 400+ planes attacking old BBs and 0 hits ?

Hey, this is the French navy!

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 9:09:05 PM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dalwin

FB and TAC are both weak against ships. Need to have either CAS or medium bombers with naval training. Even these latter are not strong early in the war, but become deadly later. I am speaking in historical terms and not necessarily game terms, but I would not expect the at start units you mentioned to do much at all against that French fleet.

One was a CAS, not FB (my bad)... Stukas would have shred any BBs, even Swordfishes managed to sink Italian BBs ! And even if they were'nt very effective, 0 damage??
And in this case there's no way to invade Norway if Allies can patrol the Skagerrak - pretty ahistorical.

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 10:49:52 PM

sveint

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Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
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The air/naval game works surprisingly well (except for interceptors not intercepting carriers, but that's another matter).

Try leaving your aircraft on naval intercept. Why was your fleet sitting around outside of port?

Also there is a lot of hit/miss with finding fleets. Read about any historical naval encounter, it was fairly chaotic/random.

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/18/2020 11:49:47 PM

Dalwin

Posts: 337
Joined: 3/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dalwin

FB and TAC are both weak against ships. Need to have either CAS or medium bombers with naval training. Even these latter are not strong early in the war, but become deadly later. I am speaking in historical terms and not necessarily game terms, but I would not expect the at start units you mentioned to do much at all against that French fleet.

One was a CAS, not FB (my bad)... Stukas would have shred any BBs, even Swordfishes managed to sink Italian BBs ! And even if they were'nt very effective, 0 damage??
And in this case there's no way to invade Norway if Allies can patrol the Skagerrak - pretty ahistorical.

1939 Stukas would not have shred BB's. They were actually not very good in a naval role, but one would expect at least a little damage to the fleet.

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/19/2020 12:47:21 PM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

The air/naval game works surprisingly well (except for interceptors not intercepting carriers, but that's another matter).

Try leaving your aircraft on naval intercept. Why was your fleet sitting around outside of port?

Also there is a lot of hit/miss with finding fleets. Read about any historical naval encounter, it was fairly chaotic/random.

My fleet was escorting an invading Inf div from Copenhagen to Oslo ... seems you cannot "night move" with a transport fleet.
Maybe my aircrafts weren't yet on "naval" attack mode, keeping their previous land attack mode, is that necessary for them to intercept ? If they do 0 damage it ain't much useful to intercept anyway...

(in reply to sveint)

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/19/2020 2:44:38 PM

sillyflower

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From: Back in Blighty
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You can't compare the achievements of swordfish vs stukas.

The former were mainly trained navigate over the sea and to use torpedoes vs ships, and they did best when the ships weren't moving eg at Taranto (which was studied and copied by the Japs @ Pearl Harbour). Stuka crews were trained to navigate over land and to hit immobile land targets with bombs, which were far less effective vs moving ships.Equally, no-one can claim that the swordfish did as good a job on land as the stuka. I do have a v. good job by a famous swordfish pilot who fought on sea and land it in a pile of boxes along with about 1,500 others so no chance of finding it at the moment and I can't remember the name of author or book title. Well worth it if you can find it for yourself though

The first moral of the story is: if you want your a/c to attack land,sea or airbase targets, they must be put on the correct setting.You can do this at any part of your turn.

The second is that taking Norway is harder than taking Denmark

The third is that airpower is very far from weak when used effectively

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/19/2020 2:46:06 PM >

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RE: Airpower is that weak ?? - 4/19/2020 5:16:47 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Aircraft have to be set in support mode to intercept fleets.

The invasion of Norway was a gigantic risk for the Axis which paid off.

If you do it early you do it with 1 ship and the transport with a lot of planes. The Allies won't know what is there. If they send a lot of naval groups when you have 2-3 bombers in the area they will get hammered on your turn. Another thing is that the French fleet is basically a disposable fleet so the Axis must be careful. Norway isn't required to win. It takes a lot of troops to properly garrison and gives the Allies quite a bit of MMs and a naval group.

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Post #: 9