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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 3:41:06 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

A total ban of Chinese imports would be a global economy-wrecker. It needs to be more gradual.

For example Foxcom, the contractual assembler of I-phones might begin phasing out Chinese plants. They are, after all, a Taiwanese company and no real friend of the Chicoms. Western governments should phase out purchases of Chinese PPE products. Cadillac wants to build cars in China for export BACK to the US? Don't buy them. NBA wants to operate in China? Don't watch the NBA. Hollywood wants to run their scripts by Beijing first? Don't watch the ****. Mao-mart wants to sell cheap Chinese crap that disintegrates in a stiff breeze...don't go there (this is already an easy choice)

US universities sucking on the Chinese tit with a quid pro quo of automatic allocation of 80% of the PhD STEM slots to Chinese students....cease all US government funding.


I was kind of thinking along the lines of enabling countries hit by the virus (i.e., all of them) that also happened to be victims of the Chicom 'debt diplomacy'...erm..."Belt and Road Initiative" construction projects to call force majeure on any outstanding loans. Man, it'd be worth the price of admission to see what the bond trading would be like on those quasi state-owned companies.

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't a lot of force majeure contract language contain specific provisions for epidemics?

ETA: Of course the downside, particularly for those bordering China, is that they can probably expect a 'visit' from the PLA if they did this.


Normally, default is a bad thing for the lender...but what if default is the INTENDED outcome?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html


< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 4/20/2020 3:43:00 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5311
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 3:42:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

A total ban of Chinese imports would be a global economy-wrecker. It needs to be more gradual.

For example Foxcom, the contractual assembler of I-phones might begin phasing out Chinese plants. They are, after all, a Taiwanese company and no real friend of the Chicoms. Western governments should phase out purchases of Chinese PPE products. Cadillac wants to build cars in China for export BACK to the US? Don't buy them. NBA wants to operate in China? Don't watch the NBA. Hollywood wants to run their scripts by Beijing first? Don't watch the ****. Mao-mart wants to sell cheap Chinese crap that disintegrates in a stiff breeze...don't go there (this is already an easy choice)

US universities sucking on the Chinese tit with a quid pro quo of automatic allocation of 80% of the PhD STEM slots to Chinese students....cease all US government funding.


I was kind of thinking along the lines of enabling countries hit by the virus (i.e., all of them) that also happened to be victims of the Chicom 'debt diplomacy'...erm..."Belt and Road Initiative" construction projects to call force majeure on any outstanding loans. Man, it'd be worth the price of admission to see what the bond trading would be like on those quasi state-owned companies.

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't a lot of force majeure contract language contain specific provisions for epidemics?

ETA: Of course the downside, particularly for those bordering China, is that they can probably expect a 'visit' from the PLA if they did this.

But what countries that do border China are in that predicament with loans?


Pakistan for sure. Probably some of the other 'stans'. Cambodia and Laos are already in the Chinese 'pocket' and are unlikely to invoke Chinese ire by such a move though. Same with Myanmar.

Many countries in sub-Saharan Africa have odious debt carriage from the B-A-R-I construction projects. And, IIRC, the Italians and the Greeks were playing footsie with B-A-R-I port construction efforts as well, but I don't know how those have gone.

Although it's not strictly B-A-R-I debt, the Venezuelans have been transshipping the Chinese oil for previous cash loan considerations for a few years. I don't know the precise terms on that, but wiping that debt out would cause some pain in Xi-land.

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5312
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 3:45:52 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

A total ban of Chinese imports would be a global economy-wrecker. It needs to be more gradual.

For example Foxcom, the contractual assembler of I-phones might begin phasing out Chinese plants. They are, after all, a Taiwanese company and no real friend of the Chicoms. Western governments should phase out purchases of Chinese PPE products. Cadillac wants to build cars in China for export BACK to the US? Don't buy them. NBA wants to operate in China? Don't watch the NBA. Hollywood wants to run their scripts by Beijing first? Don't watch the ****. Mao-mart wants to sell cheap Chinese crap that disintegrates in a stiff breeze...don't go there (this is already an easy choice)

US universities sucking on the Chinese tit with a quid pro quo of automatic allocation of 80% of the PhD STEM slots to Chinese students....cease all US government funding.


I was kind of thinking along the lines of enabling countries hit by the virus (i.e., all of them) that also happened to be victims of the Chicom 'debt diplomacy'...erm..."Belt and Road Initiative" construction projects to call force majeure on any outstanding loans. Man, it'd be worth the price of admission to see what the bond trading would be like on those quasi state-owned companies.

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't a lot of force majeure contract language contain specific provisions for epidemics?

ETA: Of course the downside, particularly for those bordering China, is that they can probably expect a 'visit' from the PLA if they did this.


Normally, default is a bad thing for the lender...but what if default is the INTENDED outcome?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html



Yes, I remember that. What a dumbass deal for the Sri Lankans.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5313
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 3:51:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Ethiopia is also teetering on default over a big Chinese funded road project that was supposed to bring tourists to Addis Ababba Disneyland.


Guess which UN agency lately in the news is headed by an Ethiopian whose nomination was advanced by the Chicoms?

Anyone? Anyone?

Angola is in for $20B. Angola? Really? There isn't a chance in Hell they can pay that back.

https://qz.com/africa/1634659/ethiopia-kenya-struggle-with-chinese-debt-over-sgr-railways/

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5314
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 3:52:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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From a raw numbers standpoint, things are improving almost across the board.

Belgium and Netherlands, two hotspots a week ago, have seen marked declines.

UK daily mortality down and consistently well below Univ. of Washington projections (but within the margin of error). Likely there will be a downward revision by U. Wash. within a day or two.

Ditto the USA.

Ditto many states in the US.

The Univ. of Wash. charts for each state have an added feature now, showing when countermeasures can/should begin easing. These fluctuate wildly. Some states are as early as mid-May, others deep into June. (If mortality continues to come in well under projections it seems likely that the countermeasure-easing projections will also be revised.)





< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/20/2020 4:21:55 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5315
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 4:01:06 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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A spectre is haunting the West – the spectre of authoritarian capitalism
16 April 2020


https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/a-spectre-is-haunting-the-west-the-spectre-of-authoritarian-capitalism/


"Amidst the turmoil in global financial markets in recent weeks, something unusual has happened.

Investors, seeking shelter from the coronavirus-linked sell-off, have piled into Chinese government bonds on an unprecedented scale. These purchases have increased the total foreign ownership of Beijing’s bonds to record highs, even as much of the country is still emerging from lockdown after the viral outbreak. In an ironic twist, the country where the pandemic originated has become an unlikely safe haven for investors – a shift that one prominent trader has described as “the single largest change in capital markets in anybody’s lifetime.”"


"This is the first great crisis of the post-American world."
Carl Bildt, former Swedish Prime Minister


"In 1848 Karl Marx wrote that ‘A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of communism.’ Today another spectre is haunting the West: its name is authoritarian capitalism."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/20/2020 4:02:43 PM >


_____________________________








(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5316
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 4:29:46 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

@ obvert/Warspite1/Encircled (or other Brits)

Have you lot found a website that provides granular detail across the UK? I'm talking county by county / country by country (including Wales too of course) for Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland? I don't know how to get that stuff from the Worldometers or Covid Tracking Project sites-my 'go to' sites for daily national and state information.
warspite1

I've not been able to find anything that granular - but then we can't even give a total figure of recovered so I'm not surprised....



This Guardian page has been running since the beginning here. When I first checked, my council had one case. Now, Waltham Forest lists 636. This is mostly by county, but includes all London councils.

I'm sure the PHE website has some similar stuff, which is where The Guardian lists this as coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-uk-how-many-cases-are-there-in-my-area

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/20/2020 4:30:14 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 5317
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 4:44:00 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

@ obvert/Warspite1/Encircled (or other Brits)

Have you lot found a website that provides granular detail across the UK? I'm talking county by county / country by country (including Wales too of course) for Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland? I don't know how to get that stuff from the Worldometers or Covid Tracking Project sites-my 'go to' sites for daily national and state information.
warspite1

I've not been able to find anything that granular - but then we can't even give a total figure of recovered so I'm not surprised....



This Guardian page has been running since the beginning here. When I first checked, my council had one case. Now, Waltham Forest lists 636. This is mostly by county, but includes all London councils.

I'm sure the PHE website has some similar stuff, which is where The Guardian lists this as coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-uk-how-many-cases-are-there-in-my-area
warspite1

The BBC does something similar - but these are simple 'no of cases in my area' and nothing else, so I didn't think that worth mentioning. Sorry CB if that is what you wanted.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5318
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 4:55:03 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

@ obvert/Warspite1/Encircled (or other Brits)

Have you lot found a website that provides granular detail across the UK? I'm talking county by county / country by country (including Wales too of course) for Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland? I don't know how to get that stuff from the Worldometers or Covid Tracking Project sites-my 'go to' sites for daily national and state information.
warspite1

I've not been able to find anything that granular - but then we can't even give a total figure of recovered so I'm not surprised....



This Guardian page has been running since the beginning here. When I first checked, my council had one case. Now, Waltham Forest lists 636. This is mostly by county, but includes all London councils.

I'm sure the PHE website has some similar stuff, which is where The Guardian lists this as coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-uk-how-many-cases-are-there-in-my-area


Thanks obvert. From that link, I could get more granular information on Wales, for example.

My hypothesis is that Welsh cases/deaths will look differently than major urban metropolitan areas (e.g., Londinium, Edinburgh, etc.) due to the very different levels of urbanization/population density and so forth.

Looking at the Welsh data, it looks like Wales' COVID-19 mortality peaked over a week ago. Good news that may be useful for determining staggered 're-opening' patterns for your country.








Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 4:59:45 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
Current stats for Florida found at myflorida.com.

One nice feature is a breakdown by zip code. There are 13 confirmed cases in my zip code. This gives me a little peace of mind that my local grocery stores are not likely hotbeds of contagion.









Sorry, I had no idea the image was gonna be that huge.....

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/20/2020 5:01:15 PM >


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Hans


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Post #: 5320
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:03:41 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

YOU GOT COOTIES... NO, YOU GOT COOTIES



An Arabic TV program in China suggests coronavirus originated in US
The contention contradicts widespread international and scientific consensus that the virus started in the Chinese city of Wuhan.


APRIL 20, 2020

https://www.jpost.com/international/chinas-arabic-tv-says-evidence-suggests-coronavirus-originated-in-us-625181


"there were multiple indications that the virus started in the US. These included, according to MEMRI, "the presence of multiple coronavirus strains in the United States; the coincidence between the initial coronavirus outbreak and the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan in which the US participated; the possibility that the US may have had many coronavirus deaths that have been documented as influenza deaths; and the CDC's shutdown of former US biological weapons research lab Fort Detrick.""


"So, it is expected that the ‘patient zero’ in China had come from outside China," she continued. "The Asahi Corporation of Japan published a report in the past days indicating the possibility of new cases of coronavirus in the United States among deaths caused by influenza infection and the US government recently recognized this possibility. This news has caused a widespread debate on social media about the possibility of the virus being transmitted to China from abroad during the period of the Military Olympic Games in Wuhan, which was attended by 109 countries, including the United States.""


This is why the Chinese government had all of the records destroyed. That way, the United States would be protected!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5321
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:05:50 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
From the WP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brett-giroir-trumps-testing-czar-was-forced-out-of-a-job-developing-vaccine-projects-now-hes-on-the-hot-seat/2020/04/19/b061b968-7e89-11ea-8de7-9fdff6d5d83e_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

If you can't get that page:

Brett Giroir, Trump’s testing czar, was forced out of a job developing vaccine projects. Now he’s on the hot seat.


By
Michael Kranish
April 20, 2020 at 5:00 a.m. CDT

Brett Giroir, the federal official overseeing coronavirus testing efforts, says that his experience working on vaccine development projects at Texas A&M University helped prepare him for this historic moment. He once said that his vaccine effort was so vital that “the fate of 50 million people will rely on us getting this done.”

But after eight years of work on several vaccine projects, Giroir was told in 2015 he had 30 minutes to resign or he would be fired. His annual performance evaluation at Texas A&M, the local newspaper reported, said he was “more interested in promoting yourself” than the health science center where he worked. He got low marks on being a “team player.”

Now President Trump has given Giroir the crucial task of ending the massive shortfall of tests for the novel coronavirus. Some governors have blasted the lack of federal help on testing, which they say is necessary to enact Trump’s plan for reopening the economy.

That criticism has focused attention on Giroir and whether he can deliver results under pressure. His years as director of the Texas vaccine project illustrate his operating style, which includes sweeping statements about the impact of his work, not all of which turned out as some had hoped.

During two recent interviews with The Washington Post, Giroir blamed his ouster on internal politics at the university, not on any problems with the project.

Why is it taking so long to develop a coronavirus vaccine? One scientist explains.
Peter Hotez has been working on coronavirus vaccines for years. He explains why developing a vaccine for the current pandemic will take time. (Zoeann Murphy/The Washington Post)
“If you’re not familiar with academic politics, it makes politics in Washington look like a minor league scrimmage,” he said. He said he was “heartbroken” to leave the position before his work was done, but he said that the vaccine projects have proved valuable — and might contribute to the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

As for the evaluation, Giroir, 59, said, “I’m a team player. But not to people who act inappropriately, who are misogynistic and who are abusive to other people. I don’t have a loyalty to that. I have a loyalty to my faculty and my students. And that’s what I care about. . . . It’s better to be independent and stand your ethical ground.” Asked to explain his comment, he said, “I’ll just leave it at that.”

The combative response is classic Giroir, according to those who have worked with him over the years.

Robin Robinson, who as the director of the federal Biological Advanced Research and Development Authority oversaw a major grant for the Texas vaccine project, said in an interview that Giroir “over-promised and under-delivered.” He said, “I always had a good relationship with Brett. I know he has a temper and he sometimes has a very difficult time controlling it.”

Still, Robinson, like other former associates interviewed for this report, said that he has confidence in Giroir and praised Trump’s decision to pick Giroir for the job informally known as the nation’s virus testing czar.

“He does get things done,” Robinson said. “Sometimes it’s a little different than what one might expect. But I feel confident that he will do the job where he is right now.”

Giroir serves as the assistant secretary for health in the Department of Health and Human Services, making him the top medical and science adviser to HHS Secretary Alex Azar. He oversees the U.S. Public Health Service Commisioned Corps, which has 6,200 officers and is playing a major role in fighting covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

On March 13, a week after Trump said falsely that “anybody that wants a test can get a test,” Giroir was given the responsibility of coordinating the federal government’s widely criticized virus testing programs, which initially included a faulty product from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. While he is not a formal member of the White House coronavirus task force, he is a regular presence at its meetings and often confers with Trump and Vice President Pence.

Although testing has increased since Giroir took over, some state officials continue to complain that the federal government lacks a coherent plan.

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) said on NPR last week that “the truth is that the federal government has really been more of a hindrance than a help in most of the testing issues. . . . We got very little help from the federal government.”

New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) said Wednesday on brother Chris Cuomo’s CNN show that he wasn’t familiar with Giroir. Asked by his brother about the man “in charge of the most important component” of dealing with the virus, the governor responded: “I'll take your word that he exists, but I wouldn't know otherwise.”

A Giroir spokeswoman said he has been on task-force calls to governors. A spokesman for the New York governor did not respond to a request for comment.

As for the complaints from some governors that they still lack testing capabilities, Giroir said in the interview that anyone who “needs a test” can get one.

“That does not mean at this point in time that anyone who wants a test gets a test,” Giroir said. “There may be tens of millions of people who want a test, but they really have no indication [of the virus] for that test.”

Giroir said testing must be increased to ensure that the virus does not resurge. He said the current capability of 3.5 million tests per month needs to increase to 6 million to 8 million for a “gradual reopening” of the economy to occur, and he said such capacity is growing quickly.

Separately, Giroir promised that “tens of millions” of serology tests will be available within a few weeks that enable people to determine whether they have had the virus.


Publicly, Giroir has been in sync with Trump, appearing alongside him at briefings in the admiral’s uniform he is entitled to wear as as head of the U.S. Health Service Commissioned Corps. In private, Giroir said, he has no hesitation about being blunt with the president.

“His scientific advisers, including me, provide him very frank advice every single day,” Giroir said. “Any thought that does not happen, or he does not listen, is blatantly false. . . . It’s one of the most productive working environments at a senior level I’ve been involved in.”

Giroir, born in Louisiana and educated at Harvard University and the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, began his career as a pediatrician and became chief medical officer at Children’s Medical Center in Dallas. He grew interested in how to develop new technologies, and in 2004 he joined the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, where he oversaw efforts such as the development of a ventilator that could be carried onto battlefields.

He wanted to find new ways to fight deadly pandemics, whether a virus occurred naturally or as a weapon of war. He concluded that new technology was needed to quickly make massive amounts of vaccines. “I realized the challenges were not just biological but engineering,” Giroir said.

Giroir returned to Texas in 2008 and eventually became vice chancellor at Texas A&M University, vowing to transform the region into one of the world’s hubs for vaccine development. He pushed the idea of creating mobile labs that could produce vaccines where they were most needed, and promoted a facility that would enable a pharmaceutical partner to quickly produce millions of doses of vaccine for a crisis such as an influenza pandemic.

“My job is to facilitate transformational projects that benefit lots of people,” Giroir said at the time. “I would like to be part of something that can save millions of lives worldwide.”

He told the Houston Chronicle in 2010 that “If this works, we'll have a billion-dose-per-month vaccine facility in Texas, which would be by far the largest and most capable center in the world.”

In 2012, Giroir played a major role in obtaining a federal grant that enabled the university to become one of several U.S. centers that would be prepared to quickly produce vaccines in a pandemic. “Once it's implemented, it really will solve the pandemic crisis,” he said at the time.

Federal vaccine development sites ill-suited to counter covid-19 epidemic

The university partnered with GlaxoSmithKline, a leading vaccine manufacturer. In a 2013 news release, Giroir said the company’s cell-based vaccine program was “the most promising near term influenza vaccine technology” to improve upon the traditional methodology of using eggs.

When there was fear of an outbreak of Ebola virus cases in Texas, then-Gov. Rick Perry (R) in 2014 appointed Giroir as chairman of a task force overseeing an effort to fight the disease.

In mid-2015, a new president, Michael Young, arrived at Texas A&M. Young asked some senior officials at the university to resign, while offering to keep them in their jobs for at least a year, Giroir told The Post. Giroir said he refused to sign the letter.

Giroir was summoned to a meeting at which he said he was told he had 30 minutes to resign or he would be fired. Declaring himself “heartbroken” over having failed to complete his mission, he resigned. Young, who is still university president, declined to comment.

Giroir, in response to questions about his ouster, sent The Post an editorial published at the time in the local newspaper, the Bryan Eagle. The editorial chastised Young for having forced out Giroir, saying Giroir had increased federal research grants to the university’s Health Science Center by 65 percent and was “treated badly” by the school.

Separately, the Eagle reported that the university said in a statement, “It is inaccurate and disingenuous at best to attribute growth in this area solely to Dr. Giroir.” The Eagle, which obtained Giroir’s evaluation, said that while Giroir had a grade of 4 or 5 for his management and related skills, on a scale in which 5 is the highest mark, he had a 2 or 3 in areas of “loyalty/commitment” and “team player.”

The vaccine manufacturing center was completed after Giroir’s departure, but his prediction that it would enable GlaxoSmithKline to produce a groundbreaking vaccine did not pan out. The company said in a statement that the “research underpinning the Texas A&M project did not prove fruitful,” leading federal authorities to halt funding.

The facility was acquired by a U.S. subsidiary of a Japanese company, Fujifilm Diosynth Biotechnologies, which has agreed to respond promptly if there is a federal request to develop a vaccine.

John White, who as chairman of the Board of Regents recruited Giroir to the university, said in an interview, “Brett was the architect of all these wonderful things we had put in place.” Asked to assess Giroir’s impact, he said, “It is just difficult to sum it up because the journey continues. . . . Do I wish everything would have gone faster with more tangible results? Sure, but I’m not disappointed at all where it’s been and where it’s going.”

Giroir defended the projects. He said the Fujifilm facility is available to rapidly produce a vaccine if one is requested by the federal government, just as originally envisioned, and he said his work has laid the foundation for such work, possibly including a vaccine for covid-19.

Of his vaccine work in Texas, he said, “It’s not entirely responsible for where we are by any means. But the work has really led to our ability to get a vaccine up to scale potentially in a year or a year and a half instead of five or seven years.”

Giroir also noted that a separate facility he helped develop, which uses plant-based technology to produce vaccines, is working on a possible product for the coronavirus. “It may work, it may not work,” he said. “But if you want a billion doses in a short time, plant-based is the only way to get it done.”


Giroir, after being ousted from Texas A&M, took a variety of positions, including chairing a commission that reviewed the health-care system at Veterans Affairs. With Trump’s election, Giroir found a new opportunity.

Trump nominated him in 2017 to be assistant secretary for health at HHS. The nomination languished for months as some Democrats questioned Giroir’s commitment to women’s health issues, but he was confirmed.

Trump named Giroir as acting commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration in late 2019, a position he held for two months while a new leader awaited confirmation.

Until now, some of Giroir’s most prominent work in the administration revolved around fetal stem cell tissue research, which some scientists think could be needed to find a treatment for the coronavirus. Some conservatives have urged a ban on the use of fetal tissue.

Trump ban on fetal tissue research blocks coronavirus treatment effort

Giroir said during a 2018 meeting at the National Institutes of Health that an alternative must be as reliable as fetal tissue. But HHS later announced restrictions on the ability of some researchers to get federal funding for fetal tissue research, saying the importance of “promoting the dignity of life from conception to natural death is one of the very top priorities of President Trump’s administration.” The announcement pleased Trump’s political advisers but dismayed scientists. Giroir’s views on the issue appear to put him at odds with White House policy.

“I think it’s very clear that we don’t have models that completely recapitulate what the fetal tissue does,” Giroir told The Post. “And I just mean this honestly, what I advise the president, or what happens, that’s executive privilege. And I think it was widely reported that this was the president’s decision on the way to go. This was a presidential decision. And he’s the president; he gets to make those decisions.”

_____________________________



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5322
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:09:02 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
As for the complaints from some governors that they still lack testing capabilities, Giroir said in the interview that anyone who “needs a test” can get one.

“That does not mean at this point in time that anyone who wants a test gets a test,” Giroir said. “There may be tens of millions of people who want a test, but they really have no indication [of the virus] for that test.”

Me- That's not the right attitude. Who wants a test is irrelevant. Who needs a test is relevant, but what's really important is who do we need to test. Giroir doesn't understand that's his mission, so he won't accomplish that.

_____________________________



(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 5323
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:13:24 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

YOU GOT COOTIES... NO, YOU GOT COOTIES



An Arabic TV program in China suggests coronavirus originated in US
The contention contradicts widespread international and scientific consensus that the virus started in the Chinese city of Wuhan.


APRIL 20, 2020

https://www.jpost.com/international/chinas-arabic-tv-says-evidence-suggests-coronavirus-originated-in-us-625181


"there were multiple indications that the virus started in the US. These included, according to MEMRI, "the presence of multiple coronavirus strains in the United States; the coincidence between the initial coronavirus outbreak and the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan in which the US participated; the possibility that the US may have had many coronavirus deaths that have been documented as influenza deaths; and the CDC's shutdown of former US biological weapons research lab Fort Detrick.""


"So, it is expected that the ‘patient zero’ in China had come from outside China," she continued. "The Asahi Corporation of Japan published a report in the past days indicating the possibility of new cases of coronavirus in the United States among deaths caused by influenza infection and the US government recently recognized this possibility. This news has caused a widespread debate on social media about the possibility of the virus being transmitted to China from abroad during the period of the Military Olympic Games in Wuhan, which was attended by 109 countries, including the United States.""


This is why the Chinese government had all of the records destroyed. That way, the United States would be protected!



That makes Tokyo Rose seem like Walter Cronkite.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5324
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:18:11 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Me- That's not the right attitude. Who wants a test is irrelevant. Who needs a test is relevant, but what's really important is who do we need to test.


All states have their testing rubric for who should be tested, don't they?

Hereabouts, there are phone apps that have you answer questions about clinical signs, known positive contacts, exposure to X/Y/Z high risk groups, etc. If you fit the bill for needing to test, you are given an appointment at a local drive up testing facility and you get tested. So everybody that should be / needs to be tested gets tested.

_____________________________


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 5325
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:20:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

A total ban of Chinese imports would be a global economy-wrecker. It needs to be more gradual.

For example Foxcom, the contractual assembler of I-phones might begin phasing out Chinese plants. They are, after all, a Taiwanese company and no real friend of the Chicoms. Western governments should phase out purchases of Chinese PPE products. Cadillac wants to build cars in China for export BACK to the US? Don't buy them. NBA wants to operate in China? Don't watch the NBA. Hollywood wants to run their scripts by Beijing first? Don't watch the ****. Mao-mart wants to sell cheap Chinese crap that disintegrates in a stiff breeze...don't go there (this is already an easy choice)

US universities sucking on the Chinese tit with a quid pro quo of automatic allocation of 80% of the PhD STEM slots to Chinese students....cease all US government funding.


I was kind of thinking along the lines of enabling countries hit by the virus (i.e., all of them) that also happened to be victims of the Chicom 'debt diplomacy'...erm..."Belt and Road Initiative" construction projects to call force majeure on any outstanding loans. Man, it'd be worth the price of admission to see what the bond trading would be like on those quasi state-owned companies.

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't a lot of force majeure contract language contain specific provisions for epidemics?

ETA: Of course the downside, particularly for those bordering China, is that they can probably expect a 'visit' from the PLA if they did this.


Normally, default is a bad thing for the lender...but what if default is the INTENDED outcome?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html


Yes, I remember that. What a dumbass deal for the Sri Lankans.


Reading the article, it appears that there was graft, corruption, and interference in the election. While the graft and corruption may have to be taken care of in Sri Lanken courts, the interference in the election may be actionable in the world courts. Other countries could put sanctions on the supposed private Chinese firms as well as the government controlled ones.

Other countries at risk should take note of this and see if there was graft and corruption in their dealings. That would be one way to get out of the deals.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5326
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:20:48 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ethiopia is also teetering on default over a big Chinese funded road project that was supposed to bring tourists to Addis Ababba Disneyland.


Guess which UN agency lately in the news is headed by an Ethiopian whose nomination was advanced by the Chicoms?

Anyone? Anyone?

Angola is in for $20B. Angola? Really? There isn't a chance in Hell they can pay that back.

https://qz.com/africa/1634659/ethiopia-kenya-struggle-with-chinese-debt-over-sgr-railways/



I'll see you and raise you one more from the New York Times, circa May 2017.

Guess which Ethiopian leading a UN agency lately in the news has been associated with covering up several Ethiopian cholera outbreaks?

Anyone? Anyone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

Evidence for direct culpability is lacking but there sure seems to be some similarities with the current news du jour and how evidence of cholera was then officially viewed.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5327
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:21:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

YOU GOT COOTIES... NO, YOU GOT COOTIES



An Arabic TV program in China suggests coronavirus originated in US
The contention contradicts widespread international and scientific consensus that the virus started in the Chinese city of Wuhan.


APRIL 20, 2020

https://www.jpost.com/international/chinas-arabic-tv-says-evidence-suggests-coronavirus-originated-in-us-625181


"there were multiple indications that the virus started in the US. These included, according to MEMRI, "the presence of multiple coronavirus strains in the United States; the coincidence between the initial coronavirus outbreak and the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan in which the US participated; the possibility that the US may have had many coronavirus deaths that have been documented as influenza deaths; and the CDC's shutdown of former US biological weapons research lab Fort Detrick.""


"So, it is expected that the ‘patient zero’ in China had come from outside China," she continued. "The Asahi Corporation of Japan published a report in the past days indicating the possibility of new cases of coronavirus in the United States among deaths caused by influenza infection and the US government recently recognized this possibility. This news has caused a widespread debate on social media about the possibility of the virus being transmitted to China from abroad during the period of the Military Olympic Games in Wuhan, which was attended by 109 countries, including the United States.""


This is why the Chinese government had all of the records destroyed. That way, the United States would be protected!



That makes Tokyo Rose seem like Walter Cronkite.


Classic CCP/USSR-style communication pattern demonstrated very nicely. 1. Deny. 2. Obfuscate. 3. Re-accuse. 4. Lie. 5. Destroy evidence. Personally, I get a kick out of the step #3s on all relevant international issues.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 4/20/2020 5:24:04 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5328
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:54:34 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
You wonder if anyone really falls for that crap.

The most hilarious announcements are from the PRK. It always sounds like a parody.

Good reason to call the thing "Wuhan virus"

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5329
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 5:57:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ethiopia is also teetering on default over a big Chinese funded road project that was supposed to bring tourists to Addis Ababba Disneyland.


Guess which UN agency lately in the news is headed by an Ethiopian whose nomination was advanced by the Chicoms?

Anyone? Anyone?

Angola is in for $20B. Angola? Really? There isn't a chance in Hell they can pay that back.

https://qz.com/africa/1634659/ethiopia-kenya-struggle-with-chinese-debt-over-sgr-railways/



I'll see you and raise you one more from the New York Times, circa May 2017.

Guess which Ethiopian leading a UN agency lately in the news has been associated with covering up several Ethiopian cholera outbreaks?

Anyone? Anyone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

Evidence for direct culpability is lacking but there sure seems to be some similarities with the current news du jour and how evidence of cholera was then officially viewed.

Alfred


That is what Joe Gannon would call an "M.O'"

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5330
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 6:00:18 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
"Just the facts, ma'am".

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5331
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 6:16:44 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Annoyance with the Wuhan virus is cross-cultural.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5332
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:04:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The Chicoms KNEW how bad SARS-2 was...so they corner the market on world PPE production and then they turn loose thousands of ambulatory virus reproduction machines on the rest of the world and THEN they sell the same f****** crap back at 16x the original price.

That is PURE evil. There absolutely needs to be global retribution lasting for a couple of generations.

Greed is to be expected in the so-called free trade system where one country corners the market on something and gouges the rest of the world on price - the consumers are free to pay or not buy!

While we are talking about "free market greed", what do you make of the US Federal Government commandeering mask orders that the states had ordered and confirmed, then sending 300,000 of the badly needed masks to NYC, but not to State or Hospital hands, instead to a storage warehouse where private companies could offer them to the highest bidder!
What does the Federal Government get out of that arrangement?
Who controls the company that got control of resale of the masks?
What was the delay in distribution caused by the auctioning process?
Why haven't we seen widespread anger about the whole process? (I suspect it is because the government throws so many distractions at the media that the story can never become something people fixate on).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5333
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:20:43 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Me- That's not the right attitude. Who wants a test is irrelevant. Who needs a test is relevant, but what's really important is who do we need to test.


All states have their testing rubric for who should be tested, don't they?

Hereabouts, there are phone apps that have you answer questions about clinical signs, known positive contacts, exposure to X/Y/Z high risk groups, etc. If you fit the bill for needing to test, you are given an appointment at a local drive up testing facility and you get tested. So everybody that should be / needs to be tested gets tested.

But those in the front line of medical and Seniors Care who are exposed but not showing symptoms are not getting tests to ensure they are still virus-free and should be getting weekly tests to keep them and their families safe. The current system is focused on confirming suspicions - we need a system designed around prevention.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5334
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:35:54 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
If your thesis is that government is wasteful. My answer would be.."OF COURSE"

FEMA spend money like drunken sailors and when something happens everyone yells at them to "spend faster". Congress orders them to do competitive bidding. How many times have we seen hundreds of unused trailers after a big storm? Would it have been better to have 1 billion N-95 masks sitting in warehouses? We nearly had that many in reserved for H1N1 an we used almost all of them up. You can't whine about the army you have when the war starts.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5335
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:41:12 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
NYPD ignores crowded Domino Park despite coronavirus restrictions
April 20, 2020


https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/nypd-ignores-crowded-domino-park-despite-coronavirus-restrictions/


"undreds of New Yorkers were caught flaunting coronavirus social distancing restrictions in Brooklyn’s Domino Park on Sunday — and cops did little about it, according to witnesses.

The scene, captured on a video posted on Twitter, shows rows of people soaking in the sun at the riverfront park in Williamsburg despite City Hall’s professed crackdown on large gatherings — and Mayor Bill de Blasio’s initiative to have residents snitch when they see lockdown violations."

_____________________________








(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5336
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:42:41 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brett-giroir-trumps-testing-czar-was-forced-out-of-a-job-developing-vaccine-projects-now-hes-on-the-hot-seat/2020/04/19/b061b968-7e89-11ea-8de7-9fdff6d5d83e_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

If you can't get that page:

Brett Giroir, Trump’s testing czar, was forced out of a job developing vaccine projects. Now he’s on the hot seat.

...


Giroir.... sounds Gornish.

_____________________________








(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 5337
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 7:49:28 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Sweden could have 'herd immunity' by next month, claims its infectious diseases chief amid as deaths stay low despite relaxed lockdown measures
19 April 2020


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html


"Parts of Sweden could achieve 'herd immunity' as early as next month, the country's leading epidemiologist has said as the death toll steadily rises.

The Government is holding out against a total lockdown despite growing calls for 'rapid and radical measures' to contain the coronavirus outbreak.

It has cancelled football games and closed university buildings. Restaurants, cinemas, gyms, pubs, and shops remain open."

"Dr Tegnell has described the virus as a manageable risk, saying: 'I still go to restaurants. We can't kill all our services 'And unemployed people are a great threat to public health. 'It's a factor you need to think about.'"
"

_____________________________








(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5338
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 8:02:53 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
‘Worst is yet ahead of us’ in coronavirus outbreak, WHO warns
April 20, 2020


https://globalnews.ca/news/6842358/who-warning-lockdown-worst-coronavirus/



"The head of the World Health Organization has warned that “the worst is yet ahead of us” in the coronavirus outbreak, raising new alarm bells about the pandemic just as many countries are beginning to ease restrictive measures.

WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus didn’t specify exactly why he believes that the outbreak could get worse. Some people, though, have pointed to the likely future spread of the illness through Africa, where health systems are far less developed."


_____________________________








(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5339
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 8:09:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

If your thesis is that government is wasteful. My answer would be.."OF COURSE"

FEMA spend money like drunken sailors and when something happens everyone yells at them to "spend faster". Congress orders them to do competitive bidding. How many times have we seen hundreds of unused trailers after a big storm? Would it have been better to have 1 billion N-95 masks sitting in warehouses? We nearly had that many in reserved for H1N1 an we used almost all of them up. You can't whine about the army you have when the war starts.

No, my thesis is that governments beholden to big business do not do what is in the best interest of the people who elected them. Having possession of the masks bought with taxpayer dollars, the Federal Government should simply have distributed them where they are needed, not given them to a private corporation for auction. The masks were already paid for once by the taxpayers! Why should they be paid for again by taxpayers?
The parallels with the Chinese buying up supplies to sell them to the highest bidder later are obvious, and we should be asking why it is happening in the USA.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5340
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