Confused over Support Units

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Confused over Support Units

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> Confused over Support Units

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Confused over Support Units - 4/22/2020 4:04:38 PM

jecunningham

Posts: 54
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Nova Scotia originally, now Michigan
Status: offline

After my 3rd 1943 campaign in the past month I feel like I'm getting a handle on this massive, incredibly detailed and amazing military simulation. Congrats to the developers!

I have a couple of lingering questions for the WitW pros on the forum.

1) Playing as the Allies, do most of you run the game using HQ Support Level set to a number to allow the AI to transfer SUs around between HQs or do you set it to Lock and handle SU assignment between HQs manually? I tried Lock in my most recent campaign and it was an awful lot of clicking to keep moving things around. And a sub-question to this one: if using the numbers what was your approach? By 1944 it seems you can use 9 for everything and still have literally dozens of SUs assigned to SHAEF and the Army Group HQs.

2) As to SUs ultimately getting assigned to an individual combat result, are SUs potentially assigned all the way up the chain of command or ONLY from the HQs directly attached to the combat units?

3) The HQ unit detail display has three tabs. You see the units assigned to it on the Assigned tab, that's logical. But you set the "Support Level", the number of SUs assigned to it by the AI on the Elements tab, and while it is titled "Support Level", it has nothing to do with the Support Ground Elements displayed just above it, right? Seems like you would expect to set the "Support Level" number on the Assigned tab.

Thanks, really enjoying have the time recently to do a really deep dive into WitW.

< Message edited by jecunningham -- 4/22/2020 4:17:03 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/22/2020 5:20:59 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

best I can do

1 - well I do manual but I think by Autumn 1944 with the allies it might not make much difference. The main reason for manual is I often vary between having those Armoured brigades (& similar) on the map or as SUs. Its a lot easier to manage this transition if you have them all in the same command.

Again by mid-44, I'd say every division should have 3 direct attachments (even if just engineers), I tend to try and keep the heavier artillery units in a few corps (again a benefit to manual control) and make sure I use them for the city clearing tasks.

but its all a matter of time/trade-offs and your willingness to risk RSI

2 - No they have to be in the direct command, so usually in the corps, though with the allies I use 9 or 15 Army often with direct attachments as you can run out of corps command capacity

3 - aye, support elements are not support units, its one of those bit of nomenclature that is hard wired across the game code and hard now to remove. Support Elements are signals, hospitals, stores, repair bits and so on. You'll notice the allies have a lot of these compared to the Germans (& a lot more than the Soviets in the WiTEx games). They help you to recover fatigue and damage so are very useful.

_____________________________

(in reply to jecunningham)

Post #: 2

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/23/2020 11:59:27 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

And some other questions on support units please. Playing the 1943 - 45 Italian campaign play by email

Do the and Russian / Italian units that appear in the 1943 - 45 campaign on the axis side have separate reinforcements. I would like to think that they do but suspect they don't. I would have thought that this is something that should have been included in the game. They add a lot of interest and chrome but they should receive their own reinforcement pattern. There is not much use in them receiving German pool reinforcements is there? They are relatively low grade units and as they are always on refit they are likely to attract quite a lot of replacements.

My second question I have asked before. In what in the East there was always a discussion about the dualpurpose 88 mm gun. Please can someone advise if this is dualpurpose in war in the West in that it fires at either aircraft or when attached Elan units will fire at tanks.

Many thanks.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 3

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/23/2020 3:02:38 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

After Italy's surrender, the axis have 5 manpower pools - German, Italian, Rumanian, Hungarian and Slovak. Fairly obv the last 3 have no real value for land units but of some use for the air.

They also have their own elements - both domestically produced and from German exports.

The Ost battalions draw on German production. There has been regular discussion about the value of keeping them or disbanding. I think its situational, they can pad out combat formations and help with the garrison cvs. They tend to die easily if the formation they are attached to gets hammered.

Any AA unit attached to a ground unit will act as AT. You can check out the stats from a unit tab (or the CR) but I believe its exactly the same in WiTW as it is WiTE1 (& indeed in #2).

_____________________________

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 4

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/24/2020 10:43:44 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

OK noted and thanks - why do the Ost battalions not draw from a pro axis pool of Russians. They were bolstering units and would not have been disbanded. If the game encourages disbanding then its not realistic and I would disagree with it. Thanks for advising on all these points

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 5

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/24/2020 12:55:04 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

... If the game encourages disbanding then its not realistic and I would disagree with it. ...

I'm not saying it encourages disbanding, just that is an option that has gains and losses related to it. The manpower per se is pretty meaningless as they are mostly 400 man units, the freed up equipment might get recycled to a formation that will get better use out of it.

_____________________________

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 6

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/24/2020 1:55:15 PM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

I accept what you say but they should be using captured equipment pool - a Russian one.

and btw in my campaign in Italy we have loads of Italian equipment and over 7000 infantry squads in the pool - maybe they should have recruited more Italiansinto9 actual units :)I just feel that this could have been done in a game which I play because if focuses on realism etc.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 7

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/24/2020 2:17:15 PM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

One other quick couple of questions.

Do Mountain units get any benefit from being attached to a Mountain Corps HQ.
Do they get benefit in the Mountains like WITE, or in snow ?

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 8

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/24/2020 8:46:48 PM

cfulbright

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

Definitely benefits in the mountains, in both combat and movement.

Cary

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 9

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/26/2020 11:10:43 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

Ok and thanks.

Another thing I have found as I have been playing, is that the German security regiment never gets any replacements even though they are in the pool. In fact there are quite a lot. I have had it in refit virtually since the beginning.

(in reply to cfulbright)

Post #: 10

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/26/2020 11:24:09 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

generally if you want to refit a German unit, make sure its on a depot, pref on/next to a NSS. Milan is a good spot to recycle units if the fighting is in Italy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 11

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/26/2020 11:43:36 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

Thanks for this - I think it is on a depot, yes I am in Italy 43-45 campaign.

also HG is on a depot but does not seem to get higher than 75/75 over 100 - why will it not go to 100? There is stuff in the pools

What does NSS mean?

thanks

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 12

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/26/2020 4:21:27 PM

cfulbright

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

What is Support Priority of these units' HQ's?

Cary

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 13

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/27/2020 11:11:34 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

Sorry I do not know what you mean - maybe I need to look that up.

(in reply to cfulbright)

Post #: 14

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/27/2020 11:18:08 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

Thanks for this - I think it is on a depot, yes I am in Italy 43-45 campaign.

also HG is on a depot but does not seem to get higher than 75/75 over 100 - why will it not go to 100? There is stuff in the pools

What does NSS mean?

thanks

You need to be careful interpreting production pools for the Italy scenario. Its unusual in its length in terms but not being treated as a campaign game and some odd bits happen with low production elements. Basically I'd guess that few of the elements needed to fully repair HG are being made available to you - flip the view on the production screen to active and that might give you a better feel for what is really available.

NSS - national supply source, its where all your supplies etc originate from. Invaluable if you really want to prioritise certain units for refit.

_____________________________

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 15

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/27/2020 11:47:51 AM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

I see what you mean and there is a couple of items that are 0 or very low. But I would have thought that the game would have substituted other things.

In the meantime the national supply source I need to understand how to access that. I have no idea at the moment. The players manual does not say very much about this as far as I can remember.

Another small issue has come up and that is that the forts at level 2 and 3 are not degrading once abandoned. This means I am slowly gathering forts all over the map. Something the allies will not be too pleased about. I also have an issue where there is one hex that will not rise above level 2. It's a clear hex. it is stuck on level 2 10% no matter how many units I put there.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 16

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/27/2020 1:22:22 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

I'm not a great fan of the 'read the manual' style response, not least as sometimes key issues are buried in large paras (or its feasible to read the material and not see the relevance). But I am writing the WiTE2 documentation so I sort of like manuals and search options (as well as making it easy to find the key rules), but both your points are set out

your final pt, I think a non-coastal hex that is not adjacent to the enemy and has no fortification unit can't go over #2. If you really want a #3 or #4 when it comes into use, you'll need to create a fortification unit

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/27/2020 1:24:16 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)

Post #: 17

RE: Confused over Support Units - 4/27/2020 1:30:25 PM

Cavalry Corp

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply on this. Yes the forts that are not decaying are on the coast.

There is no interruption to the national supply because the allies are still stuck south of Rome. After several unsuccessful landings which were mostly re-evacuated. It's quite interesting to note that the allies must perform a landing that is likely to capture a reasonable port or isolate part of the German defensive line.

My opponent who is quite experienced in war in the east seems to be having trouble taking Naples which is now a level IV fort. I was wondering if there was plenty of combat engineers et cetera he can attach to units. Never mind I suppose this is for him to work out. I assume also one of the key things is to destroy the railway infrastructure as if he makes a landing I can move units there very fast. Thanks again for your help.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 18