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Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 5:30:23 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		I've a Italian CL/DD Sqd adjacent to a British sub. When I right click to attack according to the manual I get "can't occupy same hex as enemy fleet." I'm confused, please help.
Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 5:36:17 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Are you at war with UK? Strange it says enemy fleet, so I assume you are.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 2
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 5:39:18 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		Yes.

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RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 8:27:42 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		I finally figured out the issue after going through the manual again. The sub wasn't next to a hex that was not all water. I kept looking at 15. Combat and not 8.3 Naval Units.

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Post #: 4
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 8:40:30 PM   
Dalwin

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I finally figured out the issue after going through the manual again. The sub wasn't next to a hex that was not all water. I kept looking at 15. Combat and not 8.3 Naval Units.

Wait, are you saying that ships can only attack subs in coastal waters? That doesn't sound right at all.

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 5
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 8:46:54 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Escorts (corvettes, frigates, etc) attack subs when they raid convoy lanes.

(in reply to Dalwin)
Post #: 6
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 8:49:29 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		Apparently so. The manual says that "only air groups, carrier groups or escorts protecting a convoy route may target a submarine group in any hex type."

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Post #: 7
RE: Naval attack. - 4/18/2020 8:57:11 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dalwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I finally figured out the issue after going through the manual again. The sub wasn't next to a hex that was not all water. I kept looking at 15. Combat and not 8.3 Naval Units.

Wait, are you saying that ships can only attack subs in coastal waters? That doesn't sound right at all.

Yes, Patrol Groups should be able to attack subs anywhere...

(in reply to Dalwin)
Post #: 8
RE: Naval attack. - 4/19/2020 3:47:58 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I agree.

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RE: Naval attack. - 4/19/2020 4:27:04 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Seems fair. +1

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 10
RE: Naval attack. - 4/19/2020 4:34:29 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		This isn't SC3 and that is not a mechanism I want to put in the game.

_____________________________

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Designer Strategic Command
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Post #: 11
RE: Naval attack. - 4/19/2020 5:10:06 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Oh yes, I have not read correctly. So this brings one question. What is the name of the convoy lane used by the Italians to supply North Africa?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 12
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 3:40:56 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Oh yes, I have not read correctly. So this brings one question. What is the name of the convoy lane used by the Italians to supply North Africa?


Just to be sure, is it the Mediterranean convoy route that supply the Italian units in North Africa?
Because, if not, how the Italian are supposed to defend themselves against UK subs?

Thanks

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/24/2020 7:17:08 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 13
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 5:43:07 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Oh yes, I have not read correctly. So this brings one question. What is the name of the convoy lane used by the Italians to supply North Africa?


Just to be sure, is the Mediterranean convoy route that supply the Italian units in North Africa?
Because, if not, how the Italian are supposed to defend themselves against UK subs?



Build Convoy Escorts

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 14
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 5:47:42 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Oh yes, I can build Escorts. My question is to which route I must assign them?


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 15
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 7:31:10 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		I built an Italian Ground Attack Grp with Naval Air Training and I've already sunk two British subs. Right now I'm at Dec. 6, 1940 turn.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 16
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 7:52:08 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I built an Italian Ground Attack Grp with Naval Air Training and I've already sunk two British subs. Right now I'm at Dec. 6, 1940 turn.


This is indeed what I am doing as UK against Italian subs. Using carrier strikes and my air units to destroy the subs. But, this is only Air units.

So, here is the point. We are asked to build escorts to defend convoy routes. Fair.

But, for Italian in North Africa, what is the convoy route to defend for their supplies?
And, for UK in North Africa, what is the convoy route to defend for their supplies?

I fail to understand. Let's take examples. For Italian, how Tripoli harbor is supplied? For UK, how Alexandria harbor is supplied?

If we build escorts and there is no convoy route to defend, I am then questioning why Patrol Groups can't attack subs.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 17
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 8:08:04 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		The only convoy route to which I was able to add Italian escorts was the Mediterranean.The other questions like how Tripoli harbor is supplied etc. I have no clue.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 18
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 8:46:26 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		And I have an immediate question. I have just invade the harbor of Misurata as UK. By which convoy route this harbor is supplied?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 19
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 8:53:18 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Port are not supplied by convoy routes. Production is shipped by merchant Marine through convoy lanes, but supplies for front line troops are handled differently.

You don't see it on the map. You can interdict the supply chain however, by placing fleets near port or aircraft within range of the port. They will sink aupplies, potentially hurting the units dependent on the port supply.

I thought the game uses transports for these supplies instead of merchants. I think there was even a small chance a transport could be sunk in the case of successful Interdiction.

All of this on the top of my head, but I think that is the way it works.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 4/24/2020 8:54:12 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:09:15 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		As far as I can tell ports magically create supply.

For example an isolated Malta will still receive supply.

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 21
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:14:23 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Malta is our of supply when Gibraltar and port said (Suez) are Axis. Otherwise, yes, Maltaa is in supply. Can be interdicted though by bombers in Sicily or posting a fleet within 4 hexes of it.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 4/24/2020 9:15:00 PM >

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 22
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:24:55 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		If ports are not supplied by convoy routes, it means there is no need to assign Escorts to the Mediterranean convoy route.

Initially, as Italian, I was putting my subs on this Mediterranean convoy route to disturb UK ports but without results. After, I have decided as Italian and as UK to put my subs near ports to do port supply interdiction.

Thus, the only way, on both sides, to defend against this is to use Air units (on the ground and carrier based only for UK that is a big advantage). Am I wrong?

As such, I think Patrol Groups should be allowed to attack subs.


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 23
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:32:33 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzerMike

Malta is our of supply when Gibraltar and port said (Suez) are Axis. Otherwise, yes, Maltaa is in supply. Can be interdicted though by bombers in Sicily or posting a fleet within 4 hexes of it.


Yes but, even out of supply, naval and air units keep receiving oil to flight even with ZERO supply. I have already highlighted this bug here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4798374

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/26/2020 3:23:26 AM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 24
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:45:40 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

If ports are not supplied by convoy routes, it means there is no need to assign Escorts to the Mediterranean convoy route.

Initially, as Italian, I was putting my subs on this Mediterranean convoy route to disturb UK ports but without results. After, I have decided as Italian and as UK to put my subs near ports to do port supply interdiction.

Thus, the only way, on both sides, to defend against this is to use Air units (on the ground and carrier based only for UK that is a big advantage). Am I wrong?



This is my understanding too.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 25
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:47:50 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		As concerns naval battles, I find it very hard to locate enemy fleets (as it should be I suppose).

However, intercepting an enemy fleet is extremely powerful. So you'll want to place your fleet (not on raiding) where you think the enemy will move.
Of course, the opponent can see your fleets and so will most likely avoid them.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 26
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 9:54:16 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

However, intercepting an enemy fleet is extremely powerful. So you'll want to place your fleet (not on raiding) where you think the enemy will move.
Of course, the opponent can see your fleets and so will most likely avoid them.


But is it working against subs?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 27
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 10:09:54 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I've never been able to effectively find/fight subs with DD units. Only air.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 28
RE: Naval attack. - 4/24/2020 11:47:17 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		I have seen surface fleets intercepting my submarines that are not in raider mode in full ocean hexes. Which makes sense since you can also attack surface fleets with your subs as long as they are not in Raider mode.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 4/24/2020 11:48:12 PM >

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 29
RE: Naval attack. - 4/25/2020 12:01:07 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Convoy routes are only for resources not supplies. Ports get supplies and are affected by units near them.

If you want to stop ships and planes raiding your port supply place other ships and planes in the area. Also attack and sink them.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 30
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