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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 4:35:25 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		CDC adds 6 new symptoms of coronavirus to list
April 26, 2020


https://fox6now.com/2020/04/26/cdc-adds-6-new-symptoms-of-coronavirus-to-list/


"New symptoms include:

Chills
Repeated shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New loss of taste or smell"

"The CDC says the symptoms may appear two to 14 days after exposure to the virus.

People with COVID-19 have reported a wide range of symptoms – ranging from mild to severe illness. The CDC recommends that if you develop any of the following emergency warning signs, get medical attention immediately:

Trouble breathing
Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
New confusion or inability to arouse
Bluish lips or face

Johns Hopkins University researchers reported more than 200,000 confirmed deaths worldwide from coronavirus Sunday, April 26."



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Post #: 5971
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 4:48:32 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Hmmmm...




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Post #: 5972
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 4:53:58 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Changes coming for people in the Land of the Big PX.

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Post #: 5973
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 5:02:29 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

One thing about PCR testing is one is not really testing for intact, living virus inside an infective envelope. Really, one is testing for fragments of viral RNA. A positive test in sewage does not mean there are infective particles. Still, I would recommend avoiding ingestion of such material. It does make me wonder about rats. Felines, canines, bats. Not hard to believe rodents might harbor it as well.

Great point about the difference between non-viable RNA fragments and viable / infectious virus, Cap.

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Post #: 5974
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 5:39:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

CDC adds 6 new symptoms of coronavirus to list
April 26, 2020


https://fox6now.com/2020/04/26/cdc-adds-6-new-symptoms-of-coronavirus-to-list/


"New symptoms include:

Chills
Repeated shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New loss of taste or smell"

"The CDC says the symptoms may appear two to 14 days after exposure to the virus.

People with COVID-19 have reported a wide range of symptoms – ranging from mild to severe illness. The CDC recommends that if you develop any of the following emergency warning signs, get medical attention immediately:

Trouble breathing
Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
New confusion or inability to arouse
Bluish lips or face

Johns Hopkins University researchers reported more than 200,000 confirmed deaths worldwide from coronavirus Sunday, April 26."


So if a man suddenly can't get it up, does that mean he might have CoViD-19 and should get tested?

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Post #: 5975
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 5:59:04 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		Mine are mostly short medium types - and clearly are not hunting dogs.

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Post #: 5976
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:01:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Hmmmm...




So the message is: 'Don't risk breathing droplets but touching surfaces that numerous others have touched is OK?'

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Post #: 5977
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:03:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So if a man suddenly can't get it up, does that mean he might have CoViD-19 and should get tested?

I thought getting it up was a woman's job ... you should try it sometime!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 5978
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:15:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

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Post #: 5979
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:18:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		UK is down again today - meaningful numbers there.

I heard on radio news today that the PM is out of the hospital and back at work.

According to that news report, he indicated UK isn't ready to ease countermeasures. Given the recent high numbers, that's understandable. If the trend continues, with more major drops in cases and mortality, it'll be interesting to see how UK and other countries and jurisdictions handle easing. I mean from a historical standpoint.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/27/2020 6:19:14 PM >

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Post #: 5980
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:23:45 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		From the WP today




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Post #: 5981
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:33:37 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today





Similar graphs/figures for various countries/regions worldwide here

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Deaths in Bergamo were 463% higher than normal

Also an interesting insight into what might be happening in less developed countries - Guayas Province in Ecuador has only reported 245 official Covid deaths. But number of overall deaths is 10,000 higher than normal - an increase of c.350% - worse than all of the reported regions apart from Bergamo.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 5982
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:38:57 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today





I'm reading that as ~3500-4000 'excess deaths' not accountable for COVID-19. Out of ~55,000 expected deaths. I'm guessing that 'elective surgeries' that weren't done that resulted in the demise of the patient are at least a significant part of that. A good article in the WSJ about several cases where scheduled recipients of cardiac stents or pacemakers couldn't survive to the (delayed) surgery time. Same with cancer chemotherapy or radiation therapy, etc. etc. We may very well find that the 'cure was worse than the disease' when we parse out the impact of delaying/closing non-COVID-19 medical therapies of all types.

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Post #: 5983
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:39:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		That's a weird looking graph. It's more than three weeks old, the vertical axis is set from 40k to 60k, and the presentation is hard to follow - at least for me. It seems to suggest there were no abnormal deaths through mid March but nearly 10k more per week by April 4....and skyrocketing! So the chart seems to represent and out-of-control contagion....but the facts don't bear that out. At the rate the line on the chart is increasing, you'd expect to find something like 40k or 50k or perhaps more in additional mortalities per week by now, three weeks since April 4. Yet, the US has only had a total of 55k Covid deaths. So I guess the chart is suggesting that we've probably had something like 200k or 500k deaths since mid-March, rather than the 55k reported? Yet the media, politicians, and medical community have missed that? Unlikely.


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Post #: 5984
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:41:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today




Similar graphs/figures for various countries/regions worldwide here

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Deaths in Bergamo were 463% higher than normal

Also an interesting insight into what might be happening in less developed countries - Guayas Province in Ecuador has only reported 245 official Covid deaths. But number of overall deaths is 10,000 higher than normal - an increase of c.350% - worse than all of the reported regions apart from Bergamo.


Mate, those nightmare numbers you cite aren't anywhere near what the graphic is positing. 350%-463% higher than normal? Gawddd... The graphics posted suggest perhaps a 10% difference at the most.

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Post #: 5985
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:45:05 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I agree about the weird looking graph. To me, it is done that way just to make it look more dramatic.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 5986
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 6:51:05 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today





I'm reading that as ~3500-4000 'excess deaths' not accountable for COVID-19. Out of ~55,000 expected deaths. I'm guessing that 'elective surgeries' that weren't done that resulted in the demise of the patient are at least a significant part of that. A good article in the WSJ about several cases where scheduled recipients of cardiac stents or pacemakers couldn't survive to the (delayed) surgery time. Same with cancer chemotherapy or radiation therapy, etc. etc. We may very well find that the 'cure was worse than the disease' when we parse out the impact of delaying/closing non-COVID-19 medical therapies of all types.


Heck, read the small print: "estimates for expected deaths come from the Yale School of Public Health's Modeling unit." In other words a guess.

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Post #: 5987
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 7:13:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I agree about the weird looking graph. To me, it is done that way just to make it look more dramatic.


Oh, it is. The Y-axis is abbreviated. That makes the variation appear much larger compared to the seasonal value

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Post #: 5988
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 7:13:39 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today




Similar graphs/figures for various countries/regions worldwide here

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Deaths in Bergamo were 463% higher than normal

Also an interesting insight into what might be happening in less developed countries - Guayas Province in Ecuador has only reported 245 official Covid deaths. But number of overall deaths is 10,000 higher than normal - an increase of c.350% - worse than all of the reported regions apart from Bergamo.


Mate, those nightmare numbers you cite aren't anywhere near what the graphic is positing. 350%-463% higher than normal? Gawddd... The graphics posted suggest perhaps a 10% difference at the most.




Say we look at Bergamo as the most extreme example. The graph is a little difficult to read because of the stretched scale. But it looks like their historical weekly deaths were running at c.200pw. So over a roughly 6 week period they would see c.1200 deaths. If over the same period they had 4600 excess deaths (i.e. total of 5800) that would work out as an increase of 380%. I guess the 'extra' 100% comes from my eyeball estimates of the historical weekly deaths and the period they are measuring over are not accurate (e.g. if you had 190pw historical rate and a 5 week period you would get 484%)

Or you could look in a slightly different way at the NYC one. 'Normal deaths' look to be around 1000pw. At the very peak of the outbreak deaths were at 6000pw - so a 500% increase. However that was the extreme and once you take into account the periods before and after the increase over the whole period comes down to c.300%.

So I think the graphs say what they are saying (if that makes sense). Whether you feel that the mortality figures (both historical and in terms of what are being reported as the contemporary figures) are accurate is another thing - the report simply says that the numbers have come from their own 'mortality analysis' and gives no further details of where those figures came from. Which strikes me as being pretty unsatisfactory scientifically.

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/27/2020 7:29:05 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5989
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 7:28:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today




Similar graphs/figures for various countries/regions worldwide here

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Deaths in Bergamo were 463% higher than normal

Also an interesting insight into what might be happening in less developed countries - Guayas Province in Ecuador has only reported 245 official Covid deaths. But number of overall deaths is 10,000 higher than normal - an increase of c.350% - worse than all of the reported regions apart from Bergamo.


Mate, those nightmare numbers you cite aren't anywhere near what the graphic is positing. 350%-463% higher than normal? Gawddd... The graphics posted suggest perhaps a 10% difference at the most.


Say we look at Bergamo as the most extreme example. The graph is a little difficult to read because of the stretched scale. But it looks like their historical weekly deaths were running at c.200pw. So over a roughly 6 week period they would see c.1200 deaths. If over the same period they had 4600 excess deaths that would work out as an increase of 380%. I guess the 'extra' 100% comes from my eyeball estimates of the historical weekly deaths and the period they are measuring over are not accurate (e.g. if you had 190pw historical rate and a 5 week period you would get 484%)


I'm sorry Sammy5IsAlive-my previous commentary was brusque and was also incomplete. Thank you for posting the other chart-it was interesting.

What I meant to say was that the other chart's 'excess mortality' (which is eye watering in some provinces / countries) doesn't look similar to the 'excess mortality' chart shown of the US. The idea of a *chart* of excessive mortality may be a similar chart idea, but what these charts showed was not 'similar' to the US chart. A ~10% increase in excess mortality versus a 400% excess mortality spike is not 'similar' in my eyes. ETA: but the chart in your article of NYC was quite striking too.

If this is the case, it also suggests that we've actually done a pretty good job stateside accounting for COVID-19 mortality. Particularly compared to other regions.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 4/27/2020 7:29:31 PM >

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Post #: 5990
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 7:39:38 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From the WP today




Similar graphs/figures for various countries/regions worldwide here

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Deaths in Bergamo were 463% higher than normal

Also an interesting insight into what might be happening in less developed countries - Guayas Province in Ecuador has only reported 245 official Covid deaths. But number of overall deaths is 10,000 higher than normal - an increase of c.350% - worse than all of the reported regions apart from Bergamo.


Mate, those nightmare numbers you cite aren't anywhere near what the graphic is positing. 350%-463% higher than normal? Gawddd... The graphics posted suggest perhaps a 10% difference at the most.


Say we look at Bergamo as the most extreme example. The graph is a little difficult to read because of the stretched scale. But it looks like their historical weekly deaths were running at c.200pw. So over a roughly 6 week period they would see c.1200 deaths. If over the same period they had 4600 excess deaths that would work out as an increase of 380%. I guess the 'extra' 100% comes from my eyeball estimates of the historical weekly deaths and the period they are measuring over are not accurate (e.g. if you had 190pw historical rate and a 5 week period you would get 484%)


I'm sorry Sammy5IsAlive-my previous commentary was brusque and was also incomplete. Thank you for posting the other chart-it was interesting.

What I meant to say was that the other chart's 'excess mortality' (which is eye watering in some provinces / countries) doesn't look similar to the 'excess mortality' chart shown of the US. The idea of a *chart* of excessive mortality may be a similar chart idea, but what these charts showed was not 'similar' to the US chart. A ~10% increase in excess mortality versus a 400% excess mortality spike is not 'similar' in my eyes. ETA: but the chart in your article of NYC was quite striking too.

If this is the case, it also suggests that we've actually done a pretty good job stateside accounting for COVID-19 mortality. Particularly compared to other regions.


Ah ok I understand where you are coming from now - don't worry about it. I was being inaccurate in my use of similar - i.e. that the FT charts were showing something similar in terms of comparing historical mortality with 'contemporary' mortality. I didn't mean to say that the patterns/numbers were similar also.

I think that the Bergamo numbers give a warning of how bad things can get if hospitals get overwhelmed. I think they (and Lombardy in general) are pretty much the only ones to have experienced that particular nightmare. I do also wonder if they were bringing elderly people to hospital from care homes and recording their deaths which I think most other European countries have not been doing. [Edit - alternatively many more of their elderly live in the community with their family and not in care homes]

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/27/2020 7:43:32 PM >

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Post #: 5991
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 7:46:59 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 885
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline 		I thought this a pretty good interview on COVID-19 and general health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lze-rMYLf2E

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I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

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Post #: 5992
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 8:53:47 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

I think that the Bergamo numbers give a warning of how bad things can get if hospitals get overwhelmed. I think they (and Lombardy in general) are pretty much the only ones to have experienced that particular nightmare. I do also wonder if they were bringing elderly people to hospital from care homes and recording their deaths which I think most other European countries have not been doing. [Edit - alternatively many more of their elderly live in the community with their family and not in care homes]


Yes. I recall seeing an article about massive deaths piling up in the streets of Ecuador a few weeks back. Didn't pay it much attention at the time, but now it makes sense. Safe to say that their system was overwhelmed and incapable of dealing with such a surge of disease and, ultimately, deaths (per the EM map).

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Post #: 5993
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 9:04:44 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

I think that the Bergamo numbers give a warning of how bad things can get if hospitals get overwhelmed. I think they (and Lombardy in general) are pretty much the only ones to have experienced that particular nightmare. I do also wonder if they were bringing elderly people to hospital from care homes and recording their deaths which I think most other European countries have not been doing. [Edit - alternatively many more of their elderly live in the community with their family and not in care homes]


Yes. I recall seeing an article about massive deaths piling up in the streets of Ecuador a few weeks back. Didn't pay it much attention at the time, but now it makes sense. Safe to say that their system was overwhelmed and incapable of dealing with such a surge of disease and, ultimately, deaths (per the EM map).


Just so other can see the regional graphs. Ecuador only lists something like 576 deaths due to Covid so far.

I've been following Indonesia closely since the beginning, as they're doing almost nothing, testing very little (196 tests/million people), and just letting it ride. In the beginning, when they reported no cases, people were flying out and testing positive elsewhere.

Looks like Jakarta is having a hard time, and if so I would guess the rest is or will be soon.




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< Message edited by obvert -- 4/27/2020 9:11:18 PM >

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Post #: 5994
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 9:18:56 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		While I hope lockdowns can end everywhere soon, the new rise in cases in both Japan and Singapore is sobering. Both did well to keep things open and keep cases low early. All of a sudden it's getting bad in both places, and both have locked down.

This is about Singapore's recent spike, with over 3,000 cases in the past three days (at time of writing, which was almost a week ago).

They're now up over 13k cases and rising at around 1,000/day still.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/singapore-coronavirus-outbreak-surges-with-3000-new-cases-in-three-days



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Post #: 5995
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 9:27:25 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline 		They were driving from North Carolina into the city limits of Savannah. Long ways to go to get a "do".

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Post #: 5996
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 9:39:06 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Man, that's a long way.

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Post #: 5997
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 10:48:53 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Here is another Stat article, a good one for all I think.

Scientists who express different views on Covid-19 should be heard, not demonized

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/27/hear-scientists-different-views-covid-19-dont-attack-them/

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5998
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 11:03:49 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is another Stat article, a good one for all I think.

Scientists who express different views on Covid-19 should be heard, not demonized

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/27/hear-scientists-different-views-covid-19-dont-attack-them/


Great article, Lowpe. Thank you for sharing.

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Post #: 5999
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/27/2020 11:24:18 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Coronavirus “Why are so many healthcare workers dying?”
27 April 2020

https://williambowles.info/2020/04/27/coronavirus-fact-check-4-why-are-so-many-healthcare-workers-dying/



"Media reports paint a picture of healthcare workers being hit very hard by the pandemic, but the statistics suggest otherwise"

"The deaths of doctors, nurses and other medical workers has been a major talking point since the pandemic began.

It started in Italy, where a website was set up listing the deaths of doctors who “died on the frontlines”.

Despite being billed as “frontline” doctors, fifteen of the names are dentists. There are also surgeons, psychiatrists, paediatricians and other specialists who obviously would not have been “on the frontlines” treating Covid19 patients."

"When Swiss Propaganda Research noted that many of them were retired, and that average age was over sixty-nine, the dates of birth were removed."

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/27/coronavirus-fact-check-4-why-are-so-many-healthcare-workers-dying/




< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/27/2020 11:25:40 PM >

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