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Engineers - 4/25/2020 8:40:11 AM   
Marauder11

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		Are engineers limited to what and where the can construct? Specifically; 1. Can engineers build fortifications in non-base hexes or are they limited to Base hexes? 2. Can engineers build roads/railroads like the USA and Canada did from the Continental US and lower Canada to Alaska or any of the other roads/railroads built over the course of the war?
Post #: 1
RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 9:03:37 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Permanent infrastructure can only be built in a base.

Units out in the countryside can entrench themselves.  The entrenchment is lost if moved outside of hex nor is available to replacing unit.

Alfred

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Post #: 2
RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 9:05:23 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		Engineers in game can’t do everything they did in real life.
1. Yes to construction of field fortifications, but when the troops move their field forts disappear. I noticed just the other day, some SNLF with no engineers were in an enemy held hex. They had no field forts until an IJA Div arrived. The Army engineers then kindly dug some trenches for them.
2. No

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Post #: 3
RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 9:33:52 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.

Nor does the player need to assign any orders for the forts to be built.

Simply leaving units in place in a hex causes field fortifications to be built.

Examine any unit you have left in place in the field for multiple days and you will see a fortification level assigned to it.

As soon as a unit enters a base hex it assumes the fortification level of the base.

Hope this helps you get things straight.

ps: Each unit in a stack in the field will have its own fortification level dependent on how long it has been sitting in the hex, unlike units in a base hex, which all have the same level matching the fortification level of the base.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/25/2020 11:15:18 AM >

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RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 12:19:17 PM   
dcpollay


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From: Upstate New York USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.




Can we clarify this? I thought you did have to have engineers in at least one unit in the hex in order for forts to be built.

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RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 12:39:51 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		No, the men have their entrenching tools. There are also some "pioneer" tools lick picks, and shovels.

Sometimes, divisions don't seem to go above level 2 entrenchments. Break them into thirds and they will entrench higher, then rebuild them.


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RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 4:49:44 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcpollay


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.




Can we clarify this? I thought you did have to have engineers in at least one unit in the hex in order for forts to be built.

But in a base, then you need at least one engineer. Do not confuse the two.

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RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 5:32:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcpollay


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.




Can we clarify this? I thought you did have to have engineers in at least one unit in the hex in order for forts to be built.

It can take a very long time for a unit like an HQ to build its own field forts to 1, and an even longer time to get to 2. But no engineers are required in the hex for them to do this. Presence of engineers in other units does seem to speed up slightly the development of field forts in non-engineer units.
I don't think anyone mentioned it, but the Units must be in Combat mode to build field forts. Sometimes you need to choose between letting them Rest and recover disablements and having them sit in Combat mode and build forts but not recover disabled squads as much.

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RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 6:43:12 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		It does not have to be a specific engineer unit type either. Many other units have integral engineers that will do the work as well.

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Post #: 9
RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 9:58:20 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It does not have to be a specific engineer unit type either. Many other units have integral engineers that will do the work as well.



Yes, in bases, in order to build forts that are semi-permanent (at least in the sense that they don't disappear when units move out) there must be at least one engineer device. That device (and hopefully many more) can either be in a dedicated engineer LCU or can be organic to a different type of unit like a division.

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Post #: 10
RE: Engineers - 4/25/2020 10:13:01 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcpollay


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.




Can we clarify this? I thought you did have to have engineers in at least one unit in the hex in order for forts to be built.

It can take a very long time for a unit like an HQ to build its own field forts to 1, and an even longer time to get to 2. But no engineers are required in the hex for them to do this. Presence of engineers in other units does seem to speed up slightly the development of field forts in non-engineer units.



This is just an example that I noticed from my PBEM recently. I had 3x Maizuru SNLF and 1x Ind Infantry Bn at Attu Island without a single engineer between them. The allies still owned Attu and the IJ troops hadn't built a field fort in the couple of weeks that they were there. As soon as the IJA 21st Div arrived with plenty of engineers, they all had level 2 field forts within days.

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Post #: 11
RE: Engineers - 4/26/2020 11:47:19 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		You kinda can build better roads. Check Bases in Burma jungle, they have daily limit of supply movement. If you expand the Base, that value will increase.

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Post #: 12
RE: Engineers - 4/27/2020 2:16:47 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcpollay


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As Alfred alluded, but may not have clearly stated engineers are not needed for units in the field to build fortifications.




Can we clarify this? I thought you did have to have engineers in at least one unit in the hex in order for forts to be built.



Yes you need engineers to also build fields works. I have severall units seen without engs that do not fortify their position. Some small inf units have no engs for example and they do not dig trenches. But if you have a seperate unit WITH engs in the hex they will also help the other unit (without engs) to dig in.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/27/2020 2:18:57 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Engineers - 4/28/2020 2:28:38 PM   
Marauder11

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		Thanks all for the replies.

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 14
RE: Engineers - 4/28/2020 5:18:39 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
Yes you need engineers to also build fields works. I have severall units seen without engs that do not fortify their position. Some small inf units have no engs for example and they do not dig trenches. But if you have a seperate unit WITH engs in the hex they will also help the other unit (without engs) to dig in.

This is not correct. Any individual LCU will dig trenches, regardless of its own engineer squads or other engineers in the hex. I also did not see any effect on speed of digging from additional engineer squads or engineer LCUs in the hex in my testing

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 15
RE: Engineers - 4/28/2020 7:17:22 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
Yes you need engineers to also build fields works. I have severall units seen without engs that do not fortify their position. Some small inf units have no engs for example and they do not dig trenches. But if you have a seperate unit WITH engs in the hex they will also help the other unit (without engs) to dig in.

This is not correct. Any individual LCU will dig trenches, regardless of its own engineer squads or other engineers in the hex. I also did not see any effect on speed of digging from additional engineer squads or engineer LCUs in the hex in my testing



+1 Correct

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Post #: 16
RE: Engineers - 4/29/2020 12:18:33 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I am interested to know the basis of A;pha77's statement - perhaps supply, fatigue, and some leadership factors affect the die rolls.

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Post #: 17
RE: Engineers - 4/29/2020 5:34:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I am interested to know the basis of A;pha77's statement - perhaps supply, fatigue, and some leadership factors affect the die rolls.

I put it down to impatience. Units without engineer can take a long time to build a level 1 field fort, the timeframe depends on the terrain and how many healthy men the unit has. I recall an HQ unit taking about two months to get a level 1 fort. I was almost ready to conclude they did not build forts until one showed up.

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Post #: 18
RE: Engineers - 4/30/2020 11:51:44 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I am interested to know the basis of A;pha77's statement - perhaps supply, fatigue, and some leadership factors affect the die rolls.

I put it down to impatience. Units without engineer can take a long time to build a level 1 field fort, the timeframe depends on the terrain and how many healthy men the unit has. I recall an HQ unit taking about two months to get a level 1 fort. I was almost ready to conclude they did not build forts until one showed up.


That observation seems to draw a line under it.

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Post #: 19
RE: Engineers - 4/30/2020 1:22:22 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		Lets see I parked 2 units without engs, one a HQ on a road and mountain hex, 2 days ago. If I not forget it I will report back how they dig.. the other one a regiment without engs in forest/rail hex both combat modus. Game date when they started to dig (or not) 25.06.43

edit found a 3rd one, tank reg in jungle/trail

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/30/2020 1:43:31 PM >

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Post #: 20
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