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RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 3:58:47 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		Well - I took screenshots but I cannot share them...

I changed them according to your recommendations. They will still intercept - but will not fire upon the enemy.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 31
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 5:00:00 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

Well - I took screenshots but I cannot share them...

I changed them according to your recommendations. They will still intercept - but will not fire upon the enemy.



You need to get your post count higher before posting pictures becomes enabled.

Not sure what the threshold is since I passed it some time ago.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 32
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 5:38:38 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		I think it is 10 days or something. If there is another way to share - I am happy to do so.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 33
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 7:46:25 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Plumber - when you say they don't fire is there a message such as "x plane turned away due to enemy fire" etc? If so there's code that lightly armoured planes will be turned away by heavy enemy defensive fire instead of pressing that attack.

Other factors include - relative altitudes, weather conditions, leader values, experience values etc

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 34
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 8:41:28 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Plumber - when you say they don't fire is there a message such as "x plane turned away due to enemy fire" etc? If so there's code that lightly armoured planes will be turned away by heavy enemy defensive fire instead of pressing that attack.

Other factors include - relative altitudes, weather conditions, leader values, experience values etc


What happens is radar detects, CAP is scrambled (some already in the air), others dive/rise to meet the incoming, and then the combat ends and they go straight to bombing my airfield. Additionally, the same thing happens when they are leaving combat. I usually have about 15+ fighters in the air, including Zeros.

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 35
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 9:44:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		How much time is there between the bombers being sighted and the combated? How far away are they detected?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 36
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 11:16:59 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		I am unsure. I will need to check. I assume pretty far because of radar? I will have to get back to you when kids are in bed for an exact distance.

< Message edited by Plumbersmack -- 4/29/2020 11:21:44 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 37
RE: Interested Player - 4/29/2020 11:51:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Just look in the combatevents.txt in your Save folder. It will show the approximate height of the enemy formation and how long it will take for them to arrive.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Rabaul at 106,125

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Ic: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Shoho-1/B with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 7 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
**************************************************************************

Those three fighter units are from three different locations.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 38
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 4:49:44 AM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		Morning Air attack on Attu Island , at 153,49

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 55 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 7



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 11


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 7 damaged



Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 19000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 19000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 39
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 5:09:11 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

Morning Air attack on Attu Island , at 153,49

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 55 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 7



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 11


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 7 damaged



Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 19000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 19000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes


No bug or issue is revealed by this CR.

What exactly is the problem?
What exactly are you expecting to happen which doesn't happen.

The cause of most AE problems result from players having unjustified expectations of how the game should play according to their preconceived opinions instead of learning the actual game mechanics.

Alfred

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 40
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 5:19:51 AM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 41
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 7:14:43 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Lot of reasons.

Fatigue
Morale
Luck

_____________________________

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(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 42
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 8:28:37 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.


Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 43
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 8:38:52 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Lot of reasons.

Fatigue
Morale
Luck


Sardaukar,

There are other factors, involving command line switches/preferences, which can apply. These are all player self induced issues.

Alfred

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 44
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 12:09:37 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

It is a great game and platform to learn about the Pacific War. And the Forum folk are a great resource. I would think you could find Uncommon Valor out there for free or near free. And then if you are really old school Pacific War is likely a free download. Anything before that I would have to pull out my old Commodore 64......


Silent Service on the C64

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 45
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 1:44:36 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I think that someone may have their combat animations turned off.

Alfred, what do you think of that?

Joe

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 46
RE: Interested Player - 4/30/2020 1:50:33 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes



Bad luck of the dice.

The raid arrived when your CAP was in the process of cycling.
First intercept group set 4k feet below the incoming raid had ZERO planes airborne when the raid arrived.

Raid was detected with 55 minutes to react (which is pretty good) but given you had no planes in the air, they needed 53 minutes to reach an intercept point, barely arriving before the bombs started dropping.

Second intercept group also had no planes airborne, only needed 33 minutes to reach interception point, but only had 5 aircraft on standby to make the interception.

Everything you need to understand your less than desirable outcome is right there in the combat report.

p.s. Successful aerial interception is NOT all about how many enemy bombers you succeed in shooting down. Success is often gauged by how much you managed to disrupt the bombing runs and how limited the damage ends up being. Since 2 runway hits is a pretty limited result and 7 out of 11 bombers limped home damaged, your result can easily be interpreted as a great success.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/30/2020 1:56:22 PM >

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 47
RE: Interested Player - 5/1/2020 5:08:04 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 48
RE: Interested Player - 5/1/2020 11:23:56 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.



How do you know that they aren't?

Are you watching the combat animations, or do you have them turned off?

If they are on, you should see a first round of interception where interceptors engage escorts followed by a second round where interceptors engage bombers.

If your animations are turned off, you have no way of knowing if your fighters are intercepting bombers, or not.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/1/2020 11:24:30 AM >

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 49
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 3:52:01 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.


Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 50
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 3:55:01 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes



Bad luck of the dice.

The raid arrived when your CAP was in the process of cycling.
First intercept group set 4k feet below the incoming raid had ZERO planes airborne when the raid arrived.

Raid was detected with 55 minutes to react (which is pretty good) but given you had no planes in the air, they needed 53 minutes to reach an intercept point, barely arriving before the bombs started dropping.

Second intercept group also had no planes airborne, only needed 33 minutes to reach interception point, but only had 5 aircraft on standby to make the interception.

Everything you need to understand your less than desirable outcome is right there in the combat report.

p.s. Successful aerial interception is NOT all about how many enemy bombers you succeed in shooting down. Success is often gauged by how much you managed to disrupt the bombing runs and how limited the damage ends up being. Since 2 runway hits is a pretty limited result and 7 out of 11 bombers limped home damaged, your result can easily be interpreted as a great success.


This was exceedingly helpful. Helped me think through it more. Thank you. One squad is of 9 fighters (what was left over from earlier engagements).

Also - yes - I do have combat animations turned on. I try to watch them all the way through so I can glean as much as possible, especially since I am a noob.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 51
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 3:56:01 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.


CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 52
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 5:15:12 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.


CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

I don't use LRCAP much, but as I understand it, when you set a target hex for the LRCAP, you do not have to set the range-the aircraft will fly there if it is within range. By setting a range you are setting a larger circle for the LRCAP to patrol - certainly diluting it and reducing loiter time. And if you set LRCAP at the max operational range of the fighter, its loiter time will be zero so it is very unlikely to get an intercept. I try to keep LRCAP at half the distance the plane can fly on operations (as opposed to transfer range). And as with all operations, sending the aircraft to their max operational range will result in higher ops losses.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 53
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 5:33:09 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.


CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

I don't use LRCAP much, but as I understand it, when you set a target hex for the LRCAP, you do not have to set the range-the aircraft will fly there if it is within range. By setting a range you are setting a larger circle for the LRCAP to patrol - certainly diluting it and reducing loiter time. And if you set LRCAP at the max operational range of the fighter, its loiter time will be zero so it is very unlikely to get an intercept. I try to keep LRCAP at half the distance the plane can fly on operations (as opposed to transfer range). And as with all operations, sending the aircraft to their max operational range will result in higher ops losses.

Solid info. Thank you.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 54
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 7:15:54 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.


Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.


Unlikely. Enemy B24s flying at 19,000 feet were likely above any ceiling from your AAA guns. More likely is that the 7 damaged bombers were hit by your furtive CAP/LRCAP efforts.

I recommend you identify the AAA unit you have in the hex. Open up the unit info. See what the major caliber AAA guns are. Check out their maximum effective ceiling on the in-game encyclopedia. Japanese 25mm, 75mm and smaller will have effective ceilings well below 19,000 feet. Japanese AAA using more capable 88, or 100+ mm guns maybe (don't have the game open in front of me), but you get precious few of these and that's a less likely TOE for a random AAA unit.

_____________________________


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Post #: 55
RE: Interested Player - 5/2/2020 7:28:51 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

Well - I took screenshots but I cannot share them...

I changed them according to your recommendations. They will still intercept - but will not fire upon the enemy.


Now that you have 29 posts under your belt, can you please share some of the relevant screenshots with us? It makes it much easier to figure out what's going on.

My request list: 1. Take a picture of the fighter unit page, which includes their order settings (e.g., CAP 50%, etc.).
2. Take a screenshot of the pilots for the fighter unit in question.
3. Take a picture of your force disposition (large map) in the Aleutians scenario. Where are you flying CAP and where are you trying to fly LRCAP missions? Over which islands? Your references to the 'islands' have been tangential and are important considerations.

Lastly, when you say 'they will intercept, but will not fire on the enemy', what are you talking about? Are you talking about enemy raids on your fighter-based island (e.g., Attu) or are you talking about fighters intercepting a bombing strike on an island that you're trying to LRCAP? (e.g., Kiska)? If you've set your three fighter groups differently, we need to know which effectively carried out their orders versus which had some sort of misunderstanding with your orders. For that we need more details.

_____________________________


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Post #: 56
RE: Interested Player - 5/3/2020 2:14:54 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.


Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.


Which patches have you applied?

Alfred

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 57
RE: Interested Player - 5/4/2020 11:54:04 PM   
Plumbersmack

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2020
Status: offline 		https://imgur.com/bw2EkZI

https://imgur.com/PzZTECI

Here are the first two images from awhile ago. Still have yet to get on. Gosh darn honey do list. Will get you other requested images soon(tm)

Alfred, I assume I have all the patches, as I connected via launcher. Is this incorrect?

< Message edited by Plumbersmack -- 5/5/2020 12:00:49 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 58
RE: Interested Player - 5/5/2020 2:51:46 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		The Zero unit is incorrectly configured.  LRCAP must have a specified target to be effective.

Don't assume the installer does all the work for you.  The version installed is displayed at the top right hand side on the game's selection screen called Main Menu Selection.

Alfred

(in reply to Plumbersmack)
Post #: 59
RE: Interested Player - 5/5/2020 2:58:30 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

https://imgur.com/bw2EkZI

https://imgur.com/PzZTECI

Here are the first two images from awhile ago. Still have yet to get on. Gosh darn honey do list. Will get you other requested images soon(tm)

Alfred, I assume I have all the patches, as I connected via launcher. Is this incorrect?


It looks like you have no patches installed. That is the way the original release looked like.

_____________________________


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Post #: 60
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