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landing craft - 5/8/2020 9:40:59 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		When I create landing craft at a given base, I believe they will help inbound cargo unload faster. But how should they be organized - 1) as a TF at the base, 2) as a TF at the base but docked, or 3) disbanded within the port? Also, will they help in the opposite direction, meaning if I want to load a ground unit back on to a transport/amphibious TF. Thanks!
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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 11:54:15 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I just searched the release notes, didn't find anything helpful in there based on the string 'unload'.



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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 12:46:11 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Do landing craft help other ships load/unload faster? I haven't heard that before.

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 1:18:57 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		What you want are the Amphibious tractors, aka LVTs. Naval support also helps loading and unloading. The conversion of APs and AKs to the attack version, the APAs and the AKAs, add more inherent landing craft on each vessel. Those landing craft are not otherwise depicted in the game nor do they help other ships load and unload faster.

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 4:16:29 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		that's what I thought.....the ones you create in a base, "Barges" for Japan and "Landing Craft" for Allies are just small local craft you use independently

The range on them is so short I find limited utility

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 4:33:50 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		They can be used as bait to get big fish . . .

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 9:44:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

that's what I thought.....the ones you create in a base, "Barges" for Japan and "Landing Craft" for Allies are just small local craft you use independently

The range on them is so short I find limited utility

LCTs do help during amphib landings (if you create them on the spot as opposed to bringing them in loaded). I imagine Japanese barges would do the same.
Larger vessels like LCIs do not seem to do multiple trips after unloading their initial troops/equipment/supplies. I guess they are too large to bring alongside a transport without possibly damaging each other in the swells.

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 9:54:29 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		BBfanboy - I know I have that info from a developer or Alfred, but what I am not sure of is what do the LCTs organization have to look like - disbanded in port, separate TF that is at the invasion site, or as witqps recently suggested to me-put them (empty) into the TF that is unloading?

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RE: landing craft - 5/13/2020 10:21:47 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

BBfanboy - I know I have that info from a developer or Alfred, but what I am not sure of is what do the LCTs organization have to look like - disbanded in port, separate TF that is at the invasion site, or as witqps recently suggested to me-put them (empty) into the TF that is unloading?

You don't need an organization - If your TF has enough supply, loaded in the US (and maybe Oz), you can create the landing craft and they do their thing from there. It is presumed the LCT device comes with a pilot.
There are specific organized Amphib units like the ones called "Amphibious Truck" that you unload from your Amphib TF but they do not show any landing craft device - just support squads. I think that a lot of the details were abstracted to save coding time and the amount of data for the game to process. They were trying to make a game playable on 1 Gigabyte of RAM, IIRC.

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RE: landing craft - 5/20/2020 1:25:17 AM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		After some digging I came up with this from Dan Bowen: "Port, Naval Support, ops, but mostly the TF type and ships in the TF. Amphib ships with landing craft can help other ships unload, for instance" in talking about what will help unload. Also, that the LCTs I was curious about must be in the TF to work. Unfortunately, you can not create them at a site and add them to an Amph TF. They WILL transfer to a Transport (but not Cargo) TF.

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RE: landing craft - 5/20/2020 2:15:35 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

After some digging I came up with this from Dan Bowen: "Port, Naval Support, ops, but mostly the TF type and ships in the TF. Amphib ships with landing craft can help other ships unload, for instance" in talking about what will help unload. Also, that the LCTs I was curious about must be in the TF to work. Unfortunately, you can not create them at a site and add them to an Amph TF. They WILL transfer to a Transport (but not Cargo) TF.

I have created LCTs from non-transport TF supply. It just has to be loaded in the right locations and over 10,000 available. The text "Create Landing Craft" will turn yellow when you are good to go. Creating them from TF supply simulates a deck loaded with LCT. TF supply is debited something like 80 supply points per LCT.

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RE: landing craft - 5/20/2020 3:09:51 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		Thanks BBfanboy. I do understand HOW to create them. What I am trying to do is get supplies/equipment unloaded FASTER - from xAP/xAK follow up TFs - at a site I've already captured. Sorry I haven't been more clear about my question.

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RE: landing craft - 5/20/2020 3:22:16 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
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Status: offline 		Of course they can't move very fast or go very far but I just created an Amphibious TF out of LCTs and invaded Banjoevangi from Denpasar (The target hex is on Java, the troops loaded the LCTs in port on Denpasar - it's 1944) so it would seem you can use them for Amphib Ops as well (I would assume that the IJN could use barges to do the same thing but once again close by).

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< Message edited by spence -- 5/20/2020 3:23:00 PM >

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RE: landing craft - 5/20/2020 4:25:18 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You want to have Naval Support there to help unload. The amphibious tractors (LVT) will also help.

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Post #: 14
RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 2:30:39 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		What are the requirements for an amphibious TF to have the "activate landing craft" button become active? I can't seem to make it happen.

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RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 7:41:11 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

What are the requirements for an amphibious TF to have the "activate landing craft" button become active? I can't seem to make it happen.


When in doubt search for a post from a dev or me.

Read post #5 in this thread

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3945331&mpage=1&key=boat#4150895

for how to create PT boats, barges etc from supply.

Alfred

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Post #: 16
RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 9:31:35 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ummmm I am not sure this is correct but my memory is a bit hazy on this one so I could be wrong

When Don talks about landing craft my recollection is he is talking about ship types assumed to have organic landing craft so APA's and AKA's and LSD's LST's - these ships are assumed to have organic landing craft hence their enhanced unloading rates having one of these ships in a TF helps with unloading speed of the entire TF

Landing Craft on map eg LCT's are simple naval units with fast unloading rates similar to Japanese barges I am not aware of them giving bonuses to TF's they are in or bases they are attached to.

As I said I may be wrong but my recollection for unloading bonuses was ships assumed to have ORGANIC landing craft give bonuses.

Andy

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RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 6:48:24 PM   
Alfred

 

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Thanks BBfanboy. I do understand HOW to create them. What I am trying to do is get supplies/equipment unloaded FASTER - from xAP/xAK follow up TFs - at a site I've already captured. Sorry I haven't been more clear about my question.


Allied merchantmen unload rates are not increased.

Alfred

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Post #: 18
RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 7:45:00 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Thanks BBfanboy. I do understand HOW to create them. What I am trying to do is get supplies/equipment unloaded FASTER - from xAP/xAK follow up TFs - at a site I've already captured. Sorry I haven't been more clear about my question.


Allied merchantmen unload rates are not increased.

Alfred



That is a great confirmation thank you Alfred.

Early days in my gamer career here I created "boats" with a very large landing taskforce and plentiful supply of xAP and xAK as I approached Guadalcanal / Tarawa / other places.

This would be 42 and therefore before APA / AKA / LST / LCI were available.

I "assumed" that the landing boats (or Barges for Japan) may have been the equivalent of "Higgens Boats"

However I could not materially figure out if the Higgens Boats increased the unload rate

I must have replayed those "few turns" a number of times trying to measure.

The manual was not specific about it.

--

Note to original poster:

If you are trying to use an Allied Task force - well laden with supplies - exclusively made up of xAP and xAK before the specialized ships are available.... i.e. you want to tackle Tarawa / Mili / Ailinglaplap in mid early 1942 before numbers of specialized ships are available.

Again I am not 'absolutely sure' - I have played and replayed turns and tried to measure it. Further I have played games since....

However if you have a minimum of 200% Troop Capacity and 150% after "verify load" and a ENG USN Naval base force in the invasion force - it is my impression that you get enough troops on 1st unload cycle (s) to withstand "shock attack" fairly robustly so long as you are landing in Divisional Force. Depending on what Japan has on the Island you may take the base in the first shock attack.




< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 5/27/2020 7:46:00 PM >

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RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 7:48:12 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Perhaps they help heavy equipment or support troops unload faster off certain ships without speeding infantry?

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RE: landing craft - 5/27/2020 9:38:28 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		Thanks to all. That is much clearer now. I was using xAP and xAK , but NOT in an Amph assault. These were 2nd/3rd waves unloading onto an already captured base in the Philipines. The base had a "0" port. I was also looking to (re)load the actual assault troops as quickly as possible.

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RE: landing craft - 5/28/2020 2:15:51 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Thanks to all. That is much clearer now. I was using xAP and xAK , but NOT in an Amph assault. These were 2nd/3rd waves unloading onto an already captured base in the Philipines. The base had a "0" port. I was also looking to (re)load the actual assault troops as quickly as possible.


I infer you mean an amphib re-load? That takes ages over a beach (0 port).

You are better off setting those units (with engineers) to work helping build a useable port up to about level 2, and then reloading them for movement to a non malarial location* to recover properly. All the while they can be preparing for their next objective.

*Don't forget there re some cities/large bases in the malaria zone that are immune. You may not have to go all the way back to Noumea.

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