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RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x

 
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RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/13/2020 8:09:04 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline 		End Turn 8: 9 hexes to Osinovets, 26 to Moscow
Current Turn/Total losses at end of Soviet Turn 8:
Axis 24867/140965 men, 338/1971 gun, 74/939 afv, 18/131 spac. Axis losses down slightly once again.
Soviet 103950/1391246 men, 1268/17662 gun, 631/8988 afv, 137/2597 spac. Red Army losses up 20% or so but still not bad.
Net loss of only around 2400 vehicles this turn: 2.0k lost, 0.5k captured by the invaders, 0.1k seized.
Air losses: Axis 75 (this turn), 290 Total. Soviet 435 (this turn), 5951 Total. 6:1 ratio, good. 45% Axis losses were Bf-109 (34). Medium losses on both sides, and Axis air units still in very good shape. Red Air Force getting more effective finally.
Important Soviet type losses: 68 MiG-3, 18 LaGG, 11 Yak-1, 3 SB-2 Rcn, 18 IL-2. New build numbers still greater than losses.
Unit Losses: 2 RifleD, 1 AT Brig. Disbanded: 3 SecRgt, 2 FortRegion, 1 Corps HQ. Another good turn.

Pool of modern planes: 279 MiG-3, 214 Yak-1, 403 LaGG-3, 72 IL-2, 300 IL-4, 349 SB-2R, 27 Li-2. Numbers flat but that is after building new air units.
German OOB: 3373249 men (-4k), 33996 gun (flat), 4843 afv (-60), 3780 plane (-64).
Sov OOB: 4272826 men (+35k), 54656 gun (+0.8k), 12479 afv (-0.8k), 5839 plane (-125).





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(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 121
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/13/2020 10:17:21 PM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline 		Great update! Overall, things look pretty good on all fronts and the overall losses numbers.

While you've done very well in the south so far, you might be playing with fire as I'd expect most of his south forces to have pretty good supply at this point. I would have probably avoided the attacks and pulled back closer to the dnepr. If he has the fuel and manages his panzers/mots well, he could potentially do something like this:




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(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 122
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/13/2020 11:37:11 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline 		Yeah, the south pocket is almost a given, and I accepted that going in. Effective Axis interdiction means there is a nice group of units for him to bag. A passive withdrawal would have given up six units for surrender and 3-5 hexes of territory for free, so this potential pocket doesn't really cost me that much more.

The northern clump isn't as much at risk, or so I judged anyway. Those are high morale units for the most part so it would take many attacks to break through, plus I have enough strength in Kiev to probably open up any pocket he did make there. My attacks each turn on his panzers have sapped the strength of several of his units (13th Panzer and 1st SS are both rather low on CV for example), and I've forced my opponent to be cautious in earlier turns with his panzer deployments.

I tried this gambit figuring it will either save some units who can now rout (instead of surrender) next turn, or if he goes for the sure kill it'll tie down large forces for two turns (make pocket on Turn 9, surrender it on Turn 10). Either way I gain something from fighting - routed units saved, or Germans tied up for a while. That's my hope anyway - I'll get Turn 9 written up in a day or two so everyone can see the actual results.

(in reply to redrum68)
Post #: 123
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/14/2020 12:42:36 AM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline 		Yeah, the southern pocket, there really wasn't many options. But I think there is definitely a significant opportunity to pocket at least a portion of the northern one and those stronger units around Zhitomir. Ideally, avoiding having to attack those stronger units and pick off the weaker ones that surround them. These units in particular seem to be pretty good units and shouldn't be too difficult to at a minimum ZoC lock them if not pocket them but it'll be interesting to see what he did.



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Post #: 124
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/14/2020 11:37:29 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shalkai
Things I want to build new regiments with: LaGG-3 (443), U-2VS (724), SB-2 (1082), DB-3B (878), maybe some I-153BS (201). Meh, skip the I-153s.


Although the U2VS is plentiful and cheap to supply, and right now the Soviet air forces needs anything they can get, the U2VS is also a dead end for your future air force. Their airgroups cannot upgrade to any other type of aircraft. To some extent the level bombers are also a dead end too.

The Soviet air force is limited to 600 air groups - and at least based on other games the tendency seems to be to have all of them as Il-2s and fighters (plus the few transports and recons for which you have enough aircraft to fill). If you agree with this then by the late game you will need to disband your U2VS airgroups and level bombers to allow this.

(There is an alternative of using DB-3Bs, Il-4s, Yer very long range level bombers etc with the long range to strat bomb Germany and especially its manpower but I know that is not a common choice)

The I-153BS air groups on the other hand can upgrade to Il-2s. They are biplanes and can act as night bombers just like U2VS or as ordinary ground support where that is possible. Like U2VS a lot will be lost in action but also by variance and the law of large numbers some will get a string of lucky wins and build morale and experience - they will be the ones you want to upgrade to Il-2 first. The I-153BS will be the training group for your elite Il-2 Sturmoviks later.

I know Il-2 production begins low. The factories at Voronezh and the ones you will have in Moscow in 1942 need to expand and this will be slowed if they need to be evacuated (although there is a chance you will not need to in this game?) but by the end of 1942 you will have so many being built you will never have the airgroups to put them in.

For the same reasons your level bomber force, and certainly the fast medium bombers like the SB-2, will only be a stop gap to the Il-2 force. You might indeed prefer to not evacuate their factories?

Also it can be a good idea to put your better planes into your better airgroups. So if you have lots of I16s/I15s fighter bomber groups with middling experience and morale put their upgrade/ autoswap settings to let the AI upgrade them for free to LaGG-3s and instead try to make low experience/low morale FB groups out of I15s/I16s if they become the most numerous aircraft then in your pools?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/14/2020 11:51:01 AM >

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(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 125
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/14/2020 11:42:30 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline 		You're right, Redrum68. I should have spread out that cluster of mobile units better and made it safer. Another mistake I missed til now was leaving that routed unit sitting all by itself, and not moving it under another unit or better yet its HQ. I definitely made some goofs and left some openings here - thanks for the feedback!

(in reply to redrum68)
Post #: 126
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/14/2020 11:49:11 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Accidental dupe - please ignore

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/14/2020 11:50:01 AM >

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(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 127
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 5/14/2020 12:19:36 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline 		Thanks, Telemecus - I don't think it would have let me build any new I-153BS groups, but I'm definitely keeping the ones I have and about half of them are at the front and getting experience. As you can see, I was very rusty on how air unit builds were done, and my plans have been revised between Turn 8 and the current Turn 14. Lately I've been cherry-picking the best biplane FB and Tac units (some with EXP over 70!) and manually upgrading them to modern planes. Right now I'm doing 2-4 of those manual upgrades, and then building 4-8 new air units, each turn.

I'm a long way from 600 air groups (total is 323 on Turn 8) so it'll be mid-1942 before I need to start retiring the little U2 planes and then most of the level bombers. For this game, I'm going to build up a total of 16 U2VS groups, and cycle two sets of eight between NR and one nuisance bomber air base. This is mostly for experience in how effective they can be, and I'll experiment with both night and day bombing results as the game progresses.

I did evac one of the two Voronezh IL-2 factories on the first August turn (when evac cost was lowest) as a precaution. In this particular game, I don't think Voronezh is going to be threatened any time soon. That evacuation will cost me a couple hundred IL-2s of production. I don't really regret that, since I like to take some precautionary measures (like this, or building forts in Crimea that won't see action this summer). Luckily, the only other active plane factory I did a precautionary evac on was a Pe-2 plant. The rest are still sitting in Moscow or wherever, cranking out mass quantities for my budding anti-Luftwaffe air campaign.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 128
RE: Turn 8 - GamerDad (Axis) vs. Shalkai (Sov) v1.12.0x - 6/15/2020 9:07:25 PM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline 		@Shalkai - Any update? Is the game still going on? This is the best recent Soviet AAR I've read so really hoping it continues as I'm currently on turn 7 in a game I'm playing.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 129
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