Posts: 668
Joined: 1/23/2014 From: New Hampshire Status: offline
Yeah I have to agree with guggy. Being a big board war gamer (box and digital) I can say I have paid way more for games on both sides that don't have as much to offer as this game does.
Does it make any sense to price Warplan at 39,99€ in the official Matrix games store and at 33,99€ on Steam??
I mean, Matrix makes more money if they sell it directly in their own store, yet they incentivice people to buy it on Steam. At the very least the price should be the same. As it stands now you not only pay less on Steam, but you also get the valuable 2 hour trial period with an optional refund on Steam if you don't like the game.
I'm also still on the fence. Still having too much fun with Hearts of Iron 4 (BICE and Total War mods) and the Strategic Command WW2 games (Europe and World). Probably will purchase Warplan once I grow tired of those games.
I'll talk to them. I know pounds are more than dollars.
Realize I made more on Matrix than Steam. I don't make much on Steam.
Well, both prices are in Euro. Here is a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/LYaFRv9 Don't know how the pricing is in other currencies, maybe it only affects the Euro-region.
I just think that you get screwed big time by the pricing that incentivices people to purchase the game on Steam instead of Matrix. So I would suggest to have them either drop the price on Matrix or increase it on Steam. I'm sure that everyone wants to support you by buying it on the platform that benefits you the most. To be honest though, I would currently buy it on Steam due to the combination of lower price and the two-hour trial period.
Steam takes 30% from developers. The issue is there are so many developers that unless YOU market correctly you could get lost in the pile. That I know of they do zero marketing for you.
Matrix is the most popular and well known publisher on the internet for wargames. They handle all the marketing and publishing so I can focus on quality games.
Some developers focus on cookie cuttering games every 6 months. These are non wargaming developers.
Wargame developers invest years before their engine pays off. It won't make us rich but it makes enough money to live on if you are committed.
WarPlan engine and A.I. will build in future wargames I have. It was my model-T that I can improve over time.
I'm one of those who won't use steam. To me, if I have to pay a few more dollars to buy from Matrix so be it. The developers need all the support they can get. However, if you're patient Matrix has some great sales.
< Message edited by stormbringer3 -- 5/16/2020 5:41:41 PM >
The sad fact is steam has 6 guys doing HOI IV play through vids on UTube whereas you/matrix has 1 as far as I see ( good guy though)
However, to be honest, HOI4 is not really even a wargame. It is a sandbox pausable RTS game with a WW2 skin. Even their devs say as much. I have well over 3k hours into that game but have put it on the shelf to gather dust.
True wargames are much more niche. Much of this is due to being slower paced. This makes them both less popular and less suitable for streaming.
I think for Alvaro to compare himself to HOI in any sense would be a mistake.
Played a lot of Hoi2 and later on AoD and especially Darkest Hour. I liked those games a lot. Bought Hoi3 but I never got into it and Hoi4 I skipped all together. I don't want a sandbox clickfest.
Warplan fits the bill quite nicely. I am a sucker for chrome and glitz, and Warplan could really use some more of that IMHO. But the game is great. And yes, more niche than Hoi4. But I prefer it.
< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 5/15/2020 8:29:41 PM >
The sad fact is steam has 6 guys doing HOI IV play through vids on UTube whereas you/matrix has 1 as far as I see ( good guy though)
However, to be honest, HOI4 is not really even a wargame. It is a sandbox pausable RTS game with a WW2 skin. Even their devs say as much. I have well over 3k hours into that game but have put it on the shelf to gather dust.
True wargames are much more niche. Much of this is due to being slower paced. This makes them both less popular and less suitable for streaming.
I think for Alvaro to compare himself to HOI in any sense would be a mistake.
I agree though that games like Warplan and Strategic Command are best published by Matrix and at a relatively high price (40 bucks is the same price as HoI4). The reason is that a low price wouldn't attract a hell of a lot more customers cause the 90% market share of casual gamers (the Call of Duty crowd) wouldn't be interested in such games for any price. Plus, wargamers are typically older and less price-sensitive cause grown-ups have jobs and can easily afford 40 quid.
PS: I think that you miss one point about HoI4. The HoI-series was a blessing for wargames as they were dead for 15 years before HoI 1 was released. I fondly remember the 1980s and its hardcore turn-based hex war games. Without HoI the genre might still be dead. If anything then Warplan and the likes benefit from HoI's popularity.
Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001 From: Glorious Europe Status: offline
HoI is a junk wargame. It's a fantasy game.
Grocery stores take a % of our food prices. It's distribution. Release wargames first on Matrix for those direct sales, release later on Steam for much more sales at 30% reduced revenue. No one is wrong or right, it's how the world works.
Edit to add that it's perfectly ok that a lot more people buy and play HoI than WarPlan. Even if I personally disagree.
< Message edited by sveint -- 5/15/2020 9:07:31 PM >
Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001 From: Glorious Europe Status: offline
Since I'm here: would it be so hard for Matrix to update their website/download process? It's been the same for how many years now? It's rather outdated. Also, GOG might be a better fit for WarPlan.
Black ICE is garbage. Sorry but it is. It is a clutter of complexity that adds to micro management but not to strategy. Complexity is good if it deepens strategy. Black ICE does not do that. It only adds clutter. I don't need to be micromanaging separate factory lines for three different uniform items and separately producing sniper teams and mortar teams etc. It is a mess.
Strategic Command is a far far better representation of WW2 than any HOI4 game regardless of which mod is being used.
Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009 From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta Status: offline
Sorry I did not clarify.Yes,HOI4 is garbage I agree.I meant HOI3 with Black Ice mod.I just purchased Warplan and so far it is pretty good.Reminds me a lot of AH "Third Reich".
Black ICE is garbage. Sorry but it is. It is a clutter of complexity that adds to micro management but not to strategy. Complexity is good if it deepens strategy. Black ICE does not do that. It only adds clutter. I don't need to be micromanaging separate factory lines for three different uniform items and separately producing sniper teams and mortar teams etc. It is a mess.
Strategic Command is a far far better representation of WW2 than any HOI4 game regardless of which mod is being used.
Ironically I used to say exactly the same thing about BICE. However, in the recent months I re-tried it and immediately liked it. Either BICE has changed or I have changed over the past couple of years. There are indeed a lot of great features in BICE that aren't mere clutter. For instance the civilian oil consumption. That was a major factor in WW2 and it's not represented anywhere else. Or the resource stockpiles for steel, rubber, chromium and tungsten.
The production is a mess, I wholeheartedly agree on that.
-------------
Btw. first impression of Warplan vs. Strategic Command: The UX is definitely better in SC from a technical perspective (the engine feels smoother). However, lots of great quality of life features in Warplan such as the automated airstrikes, multi-attacks (I can't imagine living without the "shift always on" function etc. I already miss the historical events and decisions of SC whereas Warplan is a lot more sandboxy. The biggest drawback of Warplan is that you have to play the entire faction which is particularly bad for the Allied side. That kind of negates the advantage of the more streamlined macro approach.
Overall it feels like a very good addition to the genre. If I had to pick only one, then I think the SC games offer a more complete WW2 experience. But then again, these games are meant to be played for years and who buys only one wargame? Most of my friends are satisfied if they get 40 hours out of their new 50 quid PS4 game. I wish that most people weren't so shallow. Game designers like Alvaro deserve a bigger customer base!
PS: Another all-time great is "Darkest Hour" (based on a pimped HoI2 engine) with the developer's own "World in Flames 2" mod. You haven't experienced the Russian winter before you played that game.
< Message edited by drommarnas -- 5/17/2020 10:24:29 AM >
Big difference is that WarPlan is a pure wargame. As you play it you will understand. SC has immersion in the events WP has immersion in the depth of strategy which constantly evolves throughout the full war.
I am quite pleased with the sales. Exceeded Matrix's expectations and mine. Means I can make more games. WP was my very 1st coded game.
Thank you for the kind words and honest comparison which is all I ask for from customers.
For those that don't know, for Matrix published games that are also available on Steam, you can purchase the game directly from Matrix to better support Matix and designers like Alvaro financially. You will still get a Steam code that can be used to activate the game on Steam. If you actually like using Steam as I do for a universal launcher and updater, it's the best of both worlds.
< Message edited by AntoneT -- 5/21/2020 3:45:05 PM >
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