RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

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RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/15/2020 12:06:06 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
I have a suggestion for a possible change. Admiral Phillips was in Manila talking with Admiral Hart about consolidating the Asiatic fleet with Force Z when Pearl Harbor was attacked. That is why the Blackhawk AD and the combat ships were moving to the DEI. Have that meeting earlier and consolidate the fleet and take the support ships, transports, and the Dewey out of Manila....

The suggestion was not accepted, but there WAS a change. Force Z now starts at the northernmost tip of Java (and is also reinforced by an extra BC in this mod).

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 31

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/15/2020 12:31:09 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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I don't quite understand the Japanese Chinese 50 prep HR.

Other options to think about is a fortress Palembang. John is very strong at grabbing bases early though.

Use starting merchant ships to load fuel in Luzon and SRA draining the fuel supplies. I am not up to date on the economic changes in this mod anymore so that may or may not be useful. Another option I saw recently was loading cargo ships up in Philippines and sending supply into China. Usually, John doesn't like fighting in China, and this 50 prep rule might indicate that he really wants a quiet China so he can focus on aspects of the game he does enjoy.

John is an absolute master at Iboat operations. Early in the war, you are very vulnerable to them. Be very careful at all times, and especially when the moon wanes.

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 32

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/15/2020 12:44:17 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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I don't quite understand the Japanese Chinese 50 prep HR.

***** This is the text of our house rules:

***** House Rules:
***** 1. No 4EB attacks below 10,000 Ft.
***** 2. Fighters can fly a max altitude of 20,000 in 1942, 30,000 in 1943, unlimited in 1944-1945
***** 3. Fighters can only Sweep in their two top maneuver bands.
***** 4. No Port attacks except by carrier aircraft on Turn One.
***** 5. No Hunting for American CVs on Turn One.
***** 6. Only �realistic� Japanese invasions for Turn One.
***** 7. Must pay PP to move units across borders.
***** 8. Any Japanese or Chinese assault must be at least 50% prepped prior to the attack.

Other options to think about is a fortress Palembang. John is very strong at grabbing bases early though.

***** Tried this in our one-month test game, and I was 3 turns late. I got an air HQ from Singapore in place, and thus CAP was half-decent. But the land troops were late. 2 brigades were in place, but they were still changing mode when the assault came. They were decimated. The third brigade was sunk at sea.

***** What about a Fortress Java approach? The air HQ plus the 3 brigades to Java, supported by USAAF and USMC planes? John did not see the number of dive bombers that were already in place at the end of December, so it might come as a surprise for him.

Use starting merchant ships to load fuel in Luzon and SRA draining the fuel supplies.

***** Yes. If they sink, they sink, but he does not get that fuel.

I am not up to date on the economic changes in this mod anymore so that may or may not be useful. Another option I saw recently was loading cargo ships up in Philippines and sending supply into China.

***** This might be something John does not expect... hmm... need to check his avenues of approach.

Usually, John doesn't like fighting in China, and this 50 prep rule might indicate that he really wants a quiet China so he can focus on aspects of the game he does enjoy.

***** That makes two of us ;p

John is an absolute master at Iboat operations. Early in the war, you are very vulnerable to them. Be very careful at all times, and especially when the moon wanes.

***** I have seen this. This mod has additional USN float plane units. Those, and tons of light bombers all over, being ASW training on day 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 33

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/15/2020 2:05:37 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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The Japanese Navy at start has been heavily reinforced:

- CV Akagi, Amagi (capacity 81).
- CV Hiryu, Soryu (capacity 69).
- CV Shokaku, Zuikaku (capacity 72).
- CVL Karasu, Ryukaku (capacity 33).
- CVL Ryujo (capacity 39).
- CVL Zuiho (capacity 33).
- CAV Tokachi, Kushiro (capacity 30... can undergo 180 day conversion to CV for 53 plane capacity).
- CVE Hosho, Ibuki (capacity 15)
- CVE Taiyo (capacity 27).

- BB Nagato, Mutsu (8x 40cm rifles).
- BB Owari, Hitachi (9x 41cm rifles),
- BB Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise, Hyuga (12x 36cm rifles).
- BB Tosa (10x 40cm rifles).

- BC Kongo, Haruna, Hiei, Kirishima (8x 36cm rifles).
- BC Ishitaka (10x 40cm rifles).
- BC Chichibu (4x 40cm rifles).
- BC Kawachi (9x 36cm rifles).

- CA Suzuka, Niitaka (12x 20cm rifles).
- CA Chokai, Maya, Takao, Atago (10x 20cm rifles).
- CA Mikuma, Mogami (10x 20cm rifles).
- CA Yoshiro, Miyako, Chishima, Seiki, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro, Myoko (10x 20cm rifles).

- CL Kinugasa, Aoba, Furutaka, Kako (9x 15.5cm rifles... can undergo 25 day conversion to CLAA).
- CL Tokoro (9x 15.5cm rifles).
- CL Chikuma, Tone, Kumano, Suzuya (15x 15.5cm rifles... can undergo 75 day conversion to CA).
- CL Abukuma, Kinu, Yura, Natori, Isuzu, Nagara (7x 14 cm rifles).
- CL Minase, Otonase, Ayase, Ishikari, Niyodo, Jintsu, Naka, Sendai (7x 14cm rifles).
- CL Oi, Kitakami, Kiso (40x 61cm torpedoes).
- CL Yubari (6x 14cm rifles).

But the allies do get an increased OOB too (although some come as reinforcements):

- CV Lexington, Saratoga (capacity 90).
- CV Enterprise (capacity 90).
- CV Indomitabe (capacity 45).
- CVL King's Mountain (capacity 36).
- CVL Hermes (capacity 20).
- CLV Charlotte, Jacksonvilee (capacity 18... can undergo 120 day conversion to CVL for 36 plane capacity).
- CLV Melbourne, Wellington (capacity 15... an undergo 180 day conversion to CVL for 36 plane capacity).
- CVE Langley, Ely (capacity 14).

- BB Washington, West Virginia, Colorado, Maryland (8x 16in rifles).
- BB Mississippi, New Mexico, Idaho (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Tennessee, California (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Arizona (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Oklahoma, Nevada (10x 14in rifles).
- BB Queen Elizabeth, Valiant, Warspite (8x 15in rifles).
- BB Prince of Wales (10x 14in rifles).

- BC Chesapeake (12x 12in rifles).
- BC Constellation (8x 16in rifles).
- BC Renown (6x 15in rifles).
- BC Repulse (6x 15in rifles).

- CA Indianapolis, Portland (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Chicago, Louisville, Chester, Houston, Northampton (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Salt Lake City, Pensacola (10x 8in rifles).
- CA San Francisco, Minneapolis, Astoria, New Orleans (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Canberra (8x 8in rifles).
- CA Cornwall (8x 8in rifles).
- CA Exeter (6x 8in rifles).

- CL Phoenix, Boise, Honolulu, Helena, St. Louis (15x 6in rifles).
- CL Marblehead, Trenton, Detroit, Raleigh, Concord (10x 6in rifles... can undergo 120 day conversion to CLAA).
- CL Perth (8x 8in rifles).
- CL Adelaide (6x 6in rifles).
- CL Achiles, Leander (8x 6in rifles).
- CL Glasgow (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Belfast (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Mauritius (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Enterprise (7x 6in rifles).
- CL Dauntless, Durban, Dragon, Danae (6x 6in rifles).
- CL Caledon, Colombo, Capetown, Ceres (5x 6in rifles).
- CL Jean de Vienne (9x 152mm rifles).
- CL Eendracht (10x 15cm rifles).
- CL De Ruyter (7x 15cm rifles).
- CL Java (10x 15cm rifles).
- CL Tromp (6x 15cm rifles).

- CLAA Dido, Argonaut (10x 5.25in/50 QF Mk I).

Some changes in Allied reinforcements:

- Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV can be converted to CVE.

- Additional French reinforcements include
--- CVL Bearn.
--- BB Jean Bart (8x 380mm rifles).
--- BB Lorraine (8x 340mm rifles).
--- BC Dunquerque, Strasbourg (8x 330mm rifles).
--- CA Suffren (12x 203mm rifles).
--- CA Duquesne, Tourville (8x 203mm rifles).
--- CA Algerie (8x 203mm rifles).
--- CL Gloire (9x 152mm rifles).
--- CL Emile Bertin (9x 152mm rifles).
--- CL Lamotte-Picquet (8x 155mm rifles).
--- CL Jean d'Arc (8x 155mm rifles).

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 34

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/19/2020 6:28:17 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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Ok... John sent me Japan's turn 1, I basically did China and existing TFs, and sent it back to him. We will see how the Allies fare.

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 35

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 3:27:15 PM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

Good luck and happy hunting.

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 36

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 4:45:13 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
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From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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Ok... an interesting first turn. This is what happened:

Pearl Harbor (salient points):

- BB Arizona, Bomb hits 17, on fire
- BB California, Bomb hits 9, on fire
- BB Mississippi, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
- BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
- BB Washington, Bomb hits 22, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Nevada, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Idaho, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 14, on fire
- BB New Mexico, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
- DD Mugford, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

The last one was the only ship sunk in the attack, but two BBs have red flotation damage. The rest is orange and less.
The other interesting point is aircraft losses:

- A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged, 1 destroyed
- B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged, 1 destroyed
- D3A1 Val: 5 damaged, 3 destroyed.

- P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed
- P-40B Warhawk: 5 destroyed
- PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed
- B-18A Bolo: 1 destroyed
- O-47A: 1 destroyed
- C-33: 1 destroyed

American plane losses were very light, which I find surprising. Runway damage is red, though.

Manila (salient points):

- YO-41 sunk.
- AM Lark sunk.
- xAP Candesa sunk.

There are a large number of ships damaged of course, with three submarines with red flotation damage, and one xAP with red fires. This last one I don't think I can save.

The other interesting point is airplane losses. This is the breakdown (Tracker numbers):

- F1M2 11
- A6M2 10
- G3M2 10
- D3A1 6
- B5N2 5
- G4M1 5
- Ki-57-I 2
- L3Y2 1
- Ki-27b 1
- Ki-36 1
- Ki-48-Ib 1
Japanese total: 53

- P-40B 10
- Hudson I 8
- P40E 5
- Buffalo I 4
- Wirraway 4
- O-47A 4
- Stearman 75M 4
- Do-24K-1 3
- B-17D 3
- P-36A 3
- PBY-5 3
- Walrus II 2
- Blenheim IV 1
- Vildebeest III 1
- B-18A 1
- C-33 1
- PBY-4 1
Allied total: 58

Overall, the turn was not bad. Japanese air losses were higher than I expected, and Allied ship losses were lower than I expected. John has the option to attack Pearl Harbor again, which would add to his carrier air frame (and pilot) losses. I have no illusions about the Thundering Herd. John is very good at locking it down and destroying it almost completely.

OK, what do you think? Where should I run, and where should I make a stand?

All comments welcome!

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 37

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 6:19:45 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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He will most likely sweep Pearl again...and then perhaps bomb the following day. He might even bombard Pearl. He could also split the KB looking for American Carriers or even send some to east of Pearl. So plan on the KB being around Pearl for a few days.

He can take Pearl if he wants to, but it is a major allocation of troops and shipping.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/20/2020 6:20:00 PM >

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 38

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 6:33:32 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He can take Pearl if he wants to, but it is a major allocation of troops and shipping.

Anarcho tried to take Pearl in this mod from me, and really committed to it, nearly 10 divisions....I think John would be doing you a favor by landing at Pearl. It's too tough a nut to crack.

He did make multiple attacks on Pearl, though, and ended up damaging all 10 BBs so badly they wouldn't be useful until 1944, if at all

_____________________________

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 39

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 7:21:25 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Depending upon the status of your cruisers and destroyer, lots of small SCTFs could overwhelm any enemy SCTF plus the chance of sinking part of the KB. Don't forget to search at night to detect the KB. Let the PT Boats lead the way . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 40

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 9:54:13 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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I remember John trying to take Pearl from Michael, in two different games. The first one he failed, or did it too slowly. The 2nd he learned his lesson.

Of course this was early in this mods evolution.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 41

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 10:44:41 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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Take Kona first, then Hilo and work towards Oahu. That will give the Japanese LBA airfields and he may not need his carriers.

That way, you also get some good coffee!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 42

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 11:04:30 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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As Jorge known, I've been friends with John for many years. Last year, I finally went out to Colorado for a visit last May. I was able to get Tracker to work for him. So, running Japan's economy is more efficient for him now. His biggest weakness continues to be the logistics of getting stuff back to Japan. He is getting better at his convoy composition and placing some escorts in them. But, he will sent his xAKs loaded without enough escorts, at times. I would go after his logistics as through the years, I've looked at his various in-game play (focusing on economy and logistics, not tactics) and this is still lacking. Get those subs out to interdict this!!

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 43

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/20/2020 11:33:03 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Early war Allies - random thoughts

The two PBY groups in Philippines end up in India/Ceylon, eventually. B-17s on Mindanao go to India.

You are short of construction engineers through early '42, so allocate them wisely. By '43 you will be swimming in them.

EABs go to Cape Town (CT) and then India. SeaBees stay in Pacific.

India - you have lots of xAKs there that need to go to Bombay and/or Cape Town that can be converted to xAPs in 30 days. Most of them end up in USA and are my early war workhorses moving troops frm California.

Most of Asiatic Fleet DDs can convert to APDs. I use them and the few AMCs you get to form one large and few small Fast Transport TFs. The Allies can form limited number of Fast Transport TF, but some of the pre-war American CLs have troop and cargo capacity. Find them so you know where they are.

Dutch Air Force - you will want to disband them and reform them once the DEI is about to fall. They will come back in 30 days at Aden. They will form great rear area CAP (beware John's use of the Liz to raid rear area bases). I've encouraged him to do so over the various version of BTS.

USA - Most economic assets are damaged and need supply to repair. You will need to increase most bases by x5 to x7. If you do all at once, then the first two months you will have little supply to ship out. Do not do Resources until March '42 so the small assets repair get repaired first.

Pearl - You may need to sacrifice some xAKs at start to get supplies into Pearl from Cali. Like Lowpe said, I lost this base before and you need to play Hawaii at start like its going to be invaded. All ships that can leave scatter when possible as you can send them back later. Pearl's supply level can make or break a siege.

PBYs - They don't have the range of the Emily, but you get them in masse over the years. ASAP - spend PPs to get those in USA able to move. Head for Seattle - Dutch Harbor - Midway - Pearl - Canton/Christmas Island - Pago or Suva - Sydney. John typically goes for Midway, so you need to get what you can into Central/South Pacific. I don't use them in Naval Attack, just Naval Search. Pair two AVDs (6 aviation support each) and get them into SoPac to support a PBY group (12 planes). The bases I just listed need a PBY group there when able.

American CVs - this just me talking now. I like to take off the TBs (Devastators/Avengers after May '42). I add Marine fighter groups and maybe another DB group later. You should be interested in survivability in '42. Getting 54 fighters on each is great (36 USN + 18 Marines = 54). Then, there is 36 SBDs. Break down the Wildcat fighters that are recon and place one on each as they have great range. I place 4 CA/CLs and 8 DDs per CV TF.

More to come....

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 5/20/2020 11:34:30 PM >

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 44

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:33:55 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline

He will most likely sweep Pearl again...and then perhaps bomb the following day. He might even bombard Pearl. He could also split the KB looking for American Carriers or even send some to east of Pearl. So plan on the KB being around Pearl for a few days.

***** The question is... will he sweep first or not? Hmm... I agree, he will remain there for a few days.

He can take Pearl if he wants to, but it is a major allocation of troops and shipping.

***** Agreed. He could, if he wanted to. The question is, does he?

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 45

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:36:06 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Anarcho tried to take Pearl in this mod from me, and really committed to it, nearly 10 divisions....I think John would be doing you a favor by landing at Pearl. It's too tough a nut to crack.

He did make multiple attacks on Pearl, though, and ended up damaging all 10 BBs so badly they wouldn't be useful until 1944, if at all

I agree, he would do me a favor. He would lose more than what he would win, unless he were to go for a 1942 points victory. Otherwise, his losses would only accelerate the swing of the initiative to my favor.

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 46

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:37:04 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Depending upon the status of your cruisers and destroyer, lots of small SCTFs could overwhelm any enemy SCTF plus the chance of sinking part of the KB. Don't forget to search at night to detect the KB. Let the PT Boats lead the way . . .

Night searches... must not forget night searches!

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 47

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:43:16 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
As Jorge known, I've been friends with John for many years. Last year, I finally went out to Colorado for a visit last May. I was able to get Tracker to work for him. So, running Japan's economy is more efficient for him now. His biggest weakness continues to be the logistics of getting stuff back to Japan. He is getting better at his convoy composition and placing some escorts in them. But, he will sent his xAKs loaded without enough escorts, at times. I would go after his logistics as through the years, I've looked at his various in-game play (focusing on economy and logistics, not tactics) and this is still lacking. Get those subs out to interdict this!!

He is a tactical genius, but I have seen there are things he doesn't pay much attention to. One of them is unescorted bombers. I bagged around 300 2E bombers in our trial run... in one month! There is no way the Japanese economy can maintain that rate of attrition.

On turn 1, an American cruiser force ended the turn 2 hexes from an IJN CVL TF. I do not know if it was undetected or not, because he had ordered a port strike on Manila. There are no large IJN surface combatants nearby. I wonder what will happen this turn...

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 48

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:45:23 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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IIRC, John successfully captured Pearl Harbor in a game vs. NYGiants about three or four years ago.

I don't think he'll try that gambit again, except in the very unlikely chance he decides to attack West Coast industry. He's never done that before, and I can't imagine him doing so now. He's created this new mod with tons of new ships. Above all, he'll be looking forward to raiding, attacking and probing with those new assets.

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 49

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:50:52 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Early war Allies - random thoughts

The two PBY groups in Philippines end up in India/Ceylon, eventually. B-17s on Mindanao go to India.

***** Agreed.

You are short of construction engineers through early '42, so allocate them wisely. By '43 you will be swimming in them. EABs go to Cape Town (CT) and then India. SeaBees stay in Pacific.

***** Roger!

India - you have lots of xAKs there that need to go to Bombay and/or Cape Town that can be converted to xAPs in 30 days. Most of them end up in USA and are my early war workhorses moving troops frm California.

***** I prefer Capetown for this.

Most of Asiatic Fleet DDs can convert to APDs. I use them and the few AMCs you get to form one large and few small Fast Transport TFs. The Allies can form limited number of Fast Transport TF, but some of the pre-war American CLs have troop and cargo capacity. Find them so you know where they are.

***** I am not sure about the Clemsons. The other class that can convert to APDs I will definitely do. But you have a convincing argument. Let's see what survives the next month.

Dutch Air Force - you will want to disband them and reform them once the DEI is about to fall. They will come back in 30 days at Aden. They will form great rear area CAP (beware John's use of the Liz to raid rear area bases). I've encouraged him to do so over the various version of BTS.

***** Will do!

USA - Most economic assets are damaged and need supply to repair. You will need to increase most bases by x5 to x7. If you do all at once, then the first two months you will have little supply to ship out. Do not do Resources until March '42 so the small assets repair get repaired first.

***** Roger!

Pearl - You may need to sacrifice some xAKs at start to get supplies into Pearl from Cali. Like Lowpe said, I lost this base before and you need to play Hawaii at start like its going to be invaded. All ships that can leave scatter when possible as you can send them back later. Pearl's supply level can make or break a siege.

***** Ok. Let's keep an eye on the situation here.

PBYs - They don't have the range of the Emily, but you get them in masse over the years. ASAP - spend PPs to get those in USA able to move. Head for Seattle - Dutch Harbor - Midway - Pearl - Canton/Christmas Island - Pago or Suva - Sydney. John typically goes for Midway, so you need to get what you can into Central/South Pacific. I don't use them in Naval Attack, just Naval Search. Pair two AVDs (6 aviation support each) and get them into SoPac to support a PBY group (12 planes). The bases I just listed need a PBY group there when able.

***** Midway and Canton will be lost. There is one SNLF assault div prepped for each at start. But you are correct, I need to know where his flat tops are.

American CVs - this just me talking now. I like to take off the TBs (Devastators/Avengers after May '42). I add Marine fighter groups and maybe another DB group later. You should be interested in survivability in '42. Getting 54 fighters on each is great (36 USN + 18 Marines = 54). Then, there is 36 SBDs. Break down the Wildcat fighters that are recon and place one on each as they have great range. I place 4 CA/CLs and 8 DDs per CV TF.

***** Agreed. I did this in my trial game, although we stopped before he realized it. I also load the CLVs and CVL with fighters only. It may prove to be a nasty surprise.

More to come....

***** Thanks tons!

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 50

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 6:52:46 PM

Kitakami

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
IIRC, John successfully captured Pearl Harbor in a game vs. NYGiants about three or four years ago.

I don't think he'll try that gambit again, except in the very unlikely chance he decides to attack West Coast industry. He's never done that before, and I can't imagine him doing so now. He's created this new mod with tons of new ships. Above all, he'll be looking forward to raiding, attacking and probing with those new assets.

I tend to agree with you, but until he retires, I can't stop considering the possibility,e specially since Allied flat tops are not close to defend Pearl. Still, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

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Post #: 51

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 7:02:08 PM

821Bobo

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Personally I think sortie out of PH is suicidal against any opponent who does have a clue. It can work only if he sticks at the same hex with KB, otherwise chances that any surface encounter will take place are slim at best and your valuable cruisers will be sitting ducks without cover.

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 52

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 8:22:49 PM

RangerJoe

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Well, in one game the Arizona sortied out of Pearl Harbor. The Japanese player did continue the game. The sudden loss of two carriers with one going under before making it home did not stop him. It did force a defensive Japanese game however.

Even your night search PBYs with a few set on naval attack with torpedoes might get lucky. Just slow down a carrier and see how it handles some DDs . . .

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Post #: 53

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/21/2020 11:17:11 PM

Lowpe

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I definitely would read NYGiants advice several times over.

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Post #: 54

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/22/2020 1:19:07 AM

Kitakami

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From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I definitely would read NYGiants advice several times over.

I have. He knows my opponent, while I do not... yet. The one point I am not sure is the DD Clemson class. The rest of the advice I will follow.

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Post #: 55

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/22/2020 5:13:27 AM

ny59giants

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More thoughts.....

Document dump - You should have a large email with lots of documents and notes I've created over the years coming directly to you.

India - build forts and build more forts for early '42. Only expand Delhi AF to 7 to allow airframe upgrades. I don't defend Ceylon and try to get most LCUs back to India. You will get a very large and nasty AA brigade there. Don't lose it!! 2 to 4 American DB groups head to Eastern USA - Cape Town (CT) - India. This is followed by 2 to 4 American fighter groups (25 x 3). Again, American EABs head here.

Allied Air Force, '42 edition - John hates the P-38s. I've used them to max effect with high altitude sweeps. They get my best pilots and those went to India first. I used the Purchase System to get every one of these airframes. While you will not see the B-25 attack bombers until '43, I train ALL my bomber pilots in two skills - Gnd and LowN. Like I said before, I pull off the USN TBs and train them up in THREE skills. Why?? You need to get their overall experience level up to be able to hit warships in '43 and beyond.

Important dates in '42 - April will have American warships getting first major upgrade....radar. Oct will see AA upgrades.

Clemson DDs - I have some go to DEs. The APDs will have the best early war ASW. A pair or more go into your AO TFs.

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 56

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/22/2020 2:39:36 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

More thoughts.....

Document dump - You should have a large email with lots of documents and notes I've created over the years coming directly to you.

India - build forts and build more forts for early '42. Only expand Delhi AF to 7 to allow airframe upgrades. I don't defend Ceylon and try to get most LCUs back to India. You will get a very large and nasty AA brigade there. Don't lose it!! 2 to 4 American DB groups head to Eastern USA - Cape Town (CT) - India. This is followed by 2 to 4 American fighter groups (25 x 3). Again, American EABs head here.

Allied Air Force, '42 edition - John hates the P-38s. I've used them to max effect with high altitude sweeps. They get my best pilots and those went to India first. I used the Purchase System to get every one of these airframes. While you will not see the B-25 attack bombers until '43, I train ALL my bomber pilots in two skills - Gnd and LowN. Like I said before, I pull off the USN TBs and train them up in THREE skills. Why?? You need to get their overall experience level up to be able to hit warships in '43 and beyond.

Important dates in '42 - April will have American warships getting first major upgrade....radar. Oct will see AA upgrades.

Clemson DDs - I have some go to DEs. The APDs will have the best early war ASW. A pair or more go into your AO TFs.

I will add that one class of US DDs get a good upgrade in February that gives radar and depth charge throwers. The sonar seems to work better too, although nothing is shown as a sonar device in the game.

I have not found the Clemson class to be great as DEs and they cannot convert back. Nor can they convert to APDs after their first upgrade as DDs, and I find them more useful as APDs than anything else. There are some US Regiments (Separate) that are not part of a division and are lightly equipped. I like to use massed APDs to carry them in an invasion, with a small transport or two bringing up any vehicles later. Try a mixture for the Clemsons and see what you like.

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Post #: 57

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/22/2020 5:28:43 PM

Kitakami

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Very well, I have bowed to conventional wisdom, and the Clemsons will be converted to APDs. I am certain I will not regret it.

The Thundering Herd (TM) has started its march of doom. Hopefully, some will make it. xAPs I have ordered directly to Capetown, no loading of anything. They are far to useful to risk. TKs have been ordered to fill their holds before departing, for obvious reasons, and so have xAKs and xAKLs. Floating repair docks are leaving Java, and so are auxiliary ships that are not immediately useful in the DEI.

My esteemed opponent did not land at Kota Bharu, nor did he drop the Paras at Victoria Point, so I am bracing myself for a Mersing Gambit. That means marching the 27th Aus Bde to Mersing, and having all torpedo planes on naval attack, night, with the patrol planes searching at night. Trying to get as much as possible into Singapore before it is blocked on the land side, but I have little hope.

Not trying a Fortress Palembang. Will send the 18th Brit Inf Div to Burma instead.

Changed a number of SS captains whose aggression was lower than my old dog's.

Regrouping everything in strong defensive terrain, building forts where possible. Still need to check China before sending the turn, so any last-moment suggestions/questions are welcome.

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 58

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/22/2020 7:04:17 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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And turn 2 has been sent! I expect it back at some point tomorrow morning.

There are three critical points on turn 2:

1. The USN cruiser force 2 hexes from the Japanese CV force. I am not pursuing it, but my TF commanders have been known to disobey my orders. I am eyeing another, strategically important target. We will see.

2. Pearl Harbor. It all depends on what John does there this turn.

3. Manila. Manila's port was hit hard, but no the airfields. Let's see what John does there!

Now, to wait for the turn.

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 59

RE: Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. Jo... - 5/23/2020 11:43:30 AM

LTC

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It would be nice to see an AAR from John as the Allies one day using one of his mods.

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Post #: 60

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