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PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 4:50:23 PM

Malevolence

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I'm watching the XTRG videos against THG.

Is the WitP manual available as a pdf?

I have the Europe Grigsby games, so are the rules/logistics/production essentially the same engine?

I did a search, but only found references to a possible update done by Alfred in the distant past.

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RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 4:59:08 PM

Alfred

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Not as a separate PDF.

Purchasing AE for download gives you the 2009 PDF manual. Buy the boxed AE gives you the PDF and the 2009 hard copy of the manual.

Logistics are not the same as the European continental games. Sea borne traffic is a key feature of the AE logistics. Plus the focus is on having access to raw materials.

Alfred

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 2

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 5:09:39 PM

Malevolence

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Ok; I feel like XTRG (as JP) did more work than Yamamoto's staff just in the pre-start turn.

Cheers.

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Post #: 3

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 7:22:00 PM

Moltrey

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From: Virginia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Not as a separate PDF.

Purchasing AE for download gives you�the 2009�PDF manual.� Buy the boxed AE gives you the PDF and the 2009 hard copy of the manual.

Logistics are not the same as the European continental games.� Sea borne traffic is a key feature of the AE logistics.� Plus the focus is on having access to raw materials.

Alfred

Alfred - I thought that all the Boxed/Hard Copy manual versions were long gone. Mistaken?

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 4

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 9:58:36 PM

Andy Mac

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I assume they are long gone

(in reply to Moltrey)

Post #: 5

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 10:00:55 PM

Andy Mac

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XTRG's turn 1 was not abnormal

It takes me about 12 - 14 hours solid to do a Japanese turn 1 then about 45 minutes each thereafter

3 hours for allied turn 1 and 30 minutes each therafter

But be warned I am a bit slapdash with things like convoys and I use the autoconvoy system so better players may take longer on turns than I do !!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Ok; I feel like XTRG (as JP) did more work than Yamamoto's staff just in the pre-start turn.

Cheers.

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 6

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 10:03:27 PM

Andy Mac

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I also watch both sides but the turns are so infrequent its hard to watcfh them live I tend to save them up for a month then watch them both sides !!

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Post #: 7

RE: PDF Manual - 5/25/2020 11:40:14 PM

Malevolence

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I only started it this past week and it makes a nice background during lockdown work.

I started it because THG mentioned it was moving quickly now during his recent Single Malt podcast.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 5/25/2020 11:45:16 PM >

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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Post #: 8

RE: PDF Manual - 5/26/2020 5:51:47 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Not as a separate PDF.

Purchasing AE for download gives you�the 2009�PDF manual.� Buy the boxed AE gives you the PDF and the 2009 hard copy of the manual.

Logistics are not the same as the European continental games.� Sea borne traffic is a key feature of the AE logistics.� Plus the focus is on having access to raw materials.

Alfred

Alfred - I thought that all the Boxed/Hard Copy manual versions were long gone. Mistaken?

Not necessarily mistaken.

It is true that some time ago Matrix ran out of hard copies of the 2009 manual hence boxed versions of AE shipped out without the hard copy but of course still with the PDF version. My understanding was that Matrix were looking at reprinting the manual. As you might surmise, I haven't recently bought AE so I can't say with certainty whether the reprinting occurred and the boxed version currently ships out with a hard copy.

Alfred

(in reply to Moltrey)

Post #: 9

RE: PDF Manual - 5/26/2020 2:58:25 PM

CV10

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I was able to obtain a physical copy of the manual when I bought the game back in 2015, but as thinking about it as I type this, that was half a decade ago (It doesn't feel like its been that long).

The PDF manual is great: I play the game in windowed mode, and it's nice being able to pull up the manual for a quick search if the need arises.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 10

RE: PDF Manual - 5/30/2020 8:34:41 PM

Hermit

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Is anyone currently working on updating the manual? I remember some talk about it a while ago. I'm considering taking on this task, but obviously don't want to duplicate if someone else is already working on it.

(in reply to CV10)

Post #: 11

RE: PDF Manual - 5/31/2020 10:07:31 PM

Moltrey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit

Is anyone currently working on updating the manual? I remember some talk about it a while ago. I'm considering taking on this task, but obviously don't want to duplicate if someone else is already working on it.

***twiddles thumbs***

Well.... that's a bit of a sore subject around the board from what I can gather as a relative newcomer. Alfred was working on it in the not too distant past, but things fell apart for one reason or another- probably a lot of them.
I won't presume to put words in his mouth, so you'd have to ask Alfred. (again, based on my limited knowledge)

I will say it is a more complex task than one would assume. Lots and lots of multiple corrections, clarifications and FAQ tidbits and other related flotsam and jetsam are floating around this board. It all might be important, some of it is accurate. Let's just say I have a dedicated 3-ring binder 1.5" thick with the stuff.

It would be nice for sure, I won't deny that.

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Post #: 12

RE: PDF Manual - 5/31/2020 11:36:54 PM

Malevolence

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Is it worth the effort for an 11 year old game? I'd really like to buy and play WitP, but I already have major hassles running the newer War in the West on Windows 10 (e.g. dpi-awareness and screen scaling).

If you do, however, I suggest opening a github repository. Write the manual as text using Markdown and using the player community as the contributors. Contributors submit PR's for specific additions and changes. Others offer issues, etc. Markdown is easily converted to HTML, PDF, etc.

If the community really wants an updated manual, let them build it together instead of burning one person out.

Very few people have the wherewithal to build a "Jarulf's Guide" alone.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 5/31/2020 11:40:44 PM >

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Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Moltrey)

Post #: 13

RE: PDF Manual - 6/1/2020 1:13:31 AM

Hermit

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Well, Alfred, what say you?
Will you fight with me and regain your honor?

What say you?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Moltrey)

Post #: 14

RE: PDF Manual - 6/1/2020 6:14:16 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Is it worth the effort for an 11 year old game? I'd really like to buy and play WitP, but I already have major hassles running the newer War in the West on Windows 10 (e.g. dpi-awareness and screen scaling).

If you do, however, I suggest opening a github repository. Write the manual as text using Markdown and using the player community as the contributors. Contributors submit PR's for specific additions and changes. Others offer issues, etc. Markdown is easily converted to HTML, PDF, etc.

If the community really wants an updated manual, let them build it together instead of burning one person out.

Very few people have the wherewithal to build a "Jarulf's Guide" alone.

This game is not just 11 years old - it is timeless once you get to know it. It also has the ability to add switches to the start shortcut that link the old game engine to the new technology in computers and Win10. Some players are getting resolutions in the 2500 range on their 4K monitors.

The problem with user suggested inputs is that this game keeps a lot of its process "under the hood" and many times the players think they know what is happening (giving advice accordingly) when in fact something else accounts for it. As one of the few people in the world who can look at the code, Alfred is able to put straight a lot of those misconceptions. But per the designer's intentions, he doesn't reveal too many specifics of the way the calculations are done. So user input to a manual would be useful, but we really need Alfred to verify accuracy.

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Post #: 15

RE: PDF Manual - 6/1/2020 7:54:44 AM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
*snip* ... So user input to a manual would be useful, but we really need Alfred to verify accuracy.

I can't comment on Alfred.

I was offering broad brush about one possible technique. Git is version control. Github is a website that adds a management control system around a Git repository.

It's not an open wiki. There is a built in comment, issue, and approval structure. A repository needs a person or group of managers who review and approve (i.e. commit) PR's (changes). They also manage the versions.

It's a great tool for "living" documents, but it was created for teams of people making a piece of software and dealing with diffs in source code.

If you're smart enough to play Gary Grigsby's games, you're smart enough to use Github. That said, it's a serious SaaS and technical system.

Example: (someone's modding help manual for a mount and blade game using this technique)
* The repo: https://github.com/Bannerlord-Modding/Documentation
* The result: https://docs.bannerlordmodding.com/
* Examples of approved community changes https://github.com/Bannerlord-Modding/Documentation/commits/master

As it's cloud based, updated versions of the output (website, pdf file, etc) could be built and posted using automation.

markdown text files use the .md extension.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/1/2020 8:20:11 AM >

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Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 16

RE: PDF Manual - 6/2/2020 1:24:08 PM

Yaab

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It is not about a method, but veritable input in the updated manual.

Big parts of the game are black-boxed or obscure. Players have different ideas about how things work in the game. Alfred is probably the most knowledgable person in this forum, but he is not a dev. Heck, even the devs wouldn't give away the details how things work in the WITP:AE.

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 17