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I need some Pc help - 7/27/2003 6:15:05 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		For the past several weeks ive been having a problem with my PC


Whenever I play a game....and it doesnt matter what game it is or how graphicaly intensive it is....the game runs fine for about 5-10 min....then the framerate takes a nosedive and I have to restart my PC to return it get it going back to speed again

This happens without fail everytime I try to play a game


Ive tried doing everything I can think off and now I am going to ask for help

I have defragmented...updated drivers...cut my desktop display bitrate down to 16...made sure my video cards AA was off...taken off games to free up space...cleared out temp files and install caches....everything I can think off and shutting down every program that is running

Im running windows XP pro
Two major things have happened since this problem arose

I made this compute my network hub and put dsl on it
and I put in a new hardrive after my other one died
Its a 30 gb hardrive with 20.8 gb used and 17.0 free

I do compress old files to save space (but I dont have the entire hardrive compressed....ive been told on xp you can compress some files with no problem)
I have uncompressed some of my game to try them and it doesnt seem to help

I had my Video card overclocked about 8% and I dialed it back down but that didnt help either


This is my best computer so having it not able to perform optimutly is a big problem

Any help would be apprechiated

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Post #: 1
- 7/27/2003 6:37:40 AM   
Karnaaj

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Spokane WA USA
Status: offline 		1 - *Only* during games? Try running a movie (if you have any, or DVD if you have the drive) and see if it tanks on that as well.

2 - Try opening Notepad (about as un-intensive as it gets, I suspect ) and type away for about the amoutn of failure-time, then try a game.

3 - Let it sit totally idle (no screensaver, even) until failure-time, then try a game.

Y'might try this stuff after disconnecting from the DSL as well; if all of a sudden your problem goes away *then*, you need to firewall bigtime.

Anyway, if it does it no matter what, you might be overheating... sounds about the right timespan for things to get warm and start going "Fuh fuh fuh".

Good luck...

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Post #: 2
- 7/27/2003 8:00:20 AM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		It could also be a memory issue. Try Ctrl-Alt-Del (once!) to bring up the Task Manager and look at what is running on your machine, particulalry in the processes tab - perhaps there is something running in the background that is not releasing mem back to the cpu?

Try and cast your mind back to what you have installed recently ie games/drivers etc. maybe one of these is the problem. You could use the system restore function to go back to an earlier restore point.

Let us know how you got on.

Brubaker

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 3
- 7/27/2003 8:11:42 AM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		Try some tuning tips like cancelling tasks you don't need while running XP at home.
If you are interested, I can translate some of those tips which were published in german magazines and those helped me a lot.

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Post #: 4
- 7/27/2003 9:02:40 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		I agree with all of the above to test. In addition, Have you done anything to control the size of allowed Temp files? Second do you do a lot of Quick Saves during the games? Some games i.e. the new Blitzkreig game leave fragmented files on your disk that can be 1.75Gb or bigger depending on your graphics settings and how many units are on the map.

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Post #: 5
- 7/27/2003 9:14:03 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Ok

Problem found...but I dont know how to solve it

I found the problem totatly by accident (thank god)

I was trying out IL-2 Forgotten Battles with my DSL off...and for some reason I has unplugged my soundcard too....the game ran fine well past its usual slow down point

So...
I plugged the DSL back in....same results...game ran fine....so I plugged in the sound card again...it slowed down about 3 min in


So....Now how to solve it?

I have a Creative Labs soundblaster extigy that is plugged in through a USB port

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Post #: 6
- 7/27/2003 9:14:20 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		By the way, be careful about shutting down things running in the Task tab in Device Manager. XP does a lot of log saving to maintain your Explorer operating preferances in addition to having MicroSoft set restore points running of which you may not know the timing. XP is not like Windows 95/98/ME. (Voice of experience) Anything in programs is OK. One other thing you might do is remove anything that you think might be causing the problem and go back a week or more and try a system restore.

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Post #: 7
- 7/27/2003 9:19:18 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		How many USB devices do you have running? Are you running USB 1 or 2. Does sound card need USB2? Have you got the most current drivers to go with your USB ports? If you have more than one USB device Try disconnecting other devices and see if this affects it?

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Post #: 8
- 7/27/2003 9:31:43 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		Did you check sound card compatibility for IL2? Ther should be a read me text in the game files that discusses issues for sound and video. Do you have the most current drivers for your sound card? Can you check cpu usage when the game is running and see if it is climbing over time?

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Post #: 9
- 7/27/2003 9:39:10 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nickel
[B]Did you check sound card compatibility for IL2? Ther should be a read me text in the game files that discusses issues for sound and video. Do you have the most current drivers for your sound card? Can you check cpu usage when the game is running and see if it is climbing over time? [/B][/QUOTE]


Its not just on Forgotten battles...I tried Jedi Knight II and SpWaW and those two slowed down as well

I do have the latest drivers for my soundcard

I Have all 3 USB ports in use out of 4 (Mouse...DSL, soundcard and a joystick when I need it)

How do I find out what is a USB 2.0 and a USB 1.0?

I have two of each

Ill go look for USB drivers
I have no idea where to find them but Im going to go look

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Post #: 10
- 7/27/2003 9:56:43 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		Are the USB ports built into your computer or are you running a USB router? If internal USB ports, check your motherboard manual and see if the kind of port is identified- should be. Check your manual for you sound card and it should tell you what kind of USB port it will run with. USB 2.0 is a faster type of communication than 1.0. If there is a conflict, you may need to go to the home page for your motherboard, be sure you have the model number and serial number of the board. Also take a good look at the board and see if there is a tag on it anywhere that identifies the version of Bios that is installed on the board you have. Tag can be pretty small so look close. You made need this stuff if you go to the site for the board as some boards with the same model designation have different Bios versions on them and may only support USB 1.0. Be careful about installing noncompatible USB drivers.

If these are external USB ports (a USB router), then you will probably need to go to the manufacturer of the router and see if he has a driver update.

XP does not like to install non-WHQL certified drivers and may intercept you even if you tell windows to override and install. If you get to this point, drop a line and I'll tell you how to override windows, but you go there at you own risk!

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Post #: 11
- 7/27/2003 10:00:02 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nickel
[B]Are the USB ports built into your computer or are you running a USB router? If internal USB ports, check your motherboard manual and see if the kind of port is identified- should be. Check your manual for you sound card and it should tell you what kind of USB port it will run with. USB 2.0 is a faster type of communication than 1.0. If there is a conflict, you may need to go to the home page for your motherboard, be sure you have the model number and serial number of the board. Also take a good look at the board and see if there is a tag on it anywhere that identifies the version of Bios that is installed on the board you have. Tag can be pretty small so look close. You made need this stuff if you go to the site for the board as some boards with the same model designation have different Bios versions on them and may only support USB 1.0. Be careful about installing noncompatible USB drivers.

If these are external USB ports (a USB router), then you will probably need to go to the manufacturer of the router and see if he has a driver update.

XP does not like to install non-WHQL certified drivers and may intercept you even if you tell windows to override and install. If you get to this point, drop a line and I'll tell you how to override windows, but you go there at you own risk! [/B][/QUOTE]



I looked at my USB driver and it tells me it was issued by Microsoft...dont know if this means anything

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Post #: 12
- 7/27/2003 10:17:33 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Correction

All 4 USB ports are 1.0

But...

Ive had this soundcard for a year and a half and only in the last few months have I ecperienced the slow down

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Post #: 13
- 7/27/2003 10:18:17 AM   
Jarhead


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: O.P. Fl.
Status: offline 		Have you tried using a different usb port for your sound?

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Post #: 14
- 7/27/2003 10:32:49 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		Go into Control Panel and select Peformance and Maintenance. Next select System at the bottom of the page. Under System Properties select Hardware and on that window select Device Manager. Max the window so you get a good look at the list of devices. At the bottom of the list you should see a listing for Universal Serial Bus controllers. Expand it and you should see a list of your USB ports/ devices that are installed. Don't mess with the Generaic USB Hub or PCI to USB host Controller. Your devices will be installed on the USB listings below these. Right click on the first Usb port and click properties in the popup menu. The menu that pops open will have a general Tab and 2-3 others. you can check the device by trouble shooting if you like. On the Driver tab you will get a menu that is pretty much straight forward. Record the driver info so that you can verify the USB version if you need to. Do a driver update and have windows look for a better driver. If it finds one install it and see if this helps. You can always roll back the driver ( on same menu as Update Driver) You can also do a manual search for a better driver, but you will need to know the exact path to the driver in order to do this. You will need to do this check for each USB port that is listed.

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Post #: 15
- 7/27/2003 10:35:38 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Ok im narrowing this down



When I have the card plugged in but disabled in the games...games run fine
When I activate the hardware within the game....games slow down considerably after a few min

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Post #: 16
- 7/27/2003 10:45:48 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Run dxdiag, on the sound tab you'll see a hardware/accelleration slider. Shift it to the left to one notch, test, repeat.

Get the latest drivers from Creative and install them. Make absolutely sure you get the part number off your card and match the drivers as there are a million versions of the drivers and the ones built into windows are generally going to mis-detect the card and use some generic versions.

I have the same problem with my SB Live Digital card. Windows sees it as a Live missing the digital aspects and runs like a piece of ****

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 17
- 7/27/2003 10:49:31 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		Get into System info again and pull up your audio card. You shoul get some kind of properties tab or window. Can you adjust you speaker performance? Can you adjust sound acceleration? Do you have any MIDI contols? Try using the windows default MIDI if you are using the software for your sound card. I know this is going to sound dumb, but I had my card set too slow and was having sound problems so I turned up everything including synthesizing speakers. Apparently some games need higher levels of MIDI and sound control to run properly.

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Post #: 18
- 7/27/2003 11:16:13 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Grr

I moved down sound settings and im still getting poor performance



Its weird though...I can run music and movies for long periods of time with no problem

so Im thinking maybe its direct x and my sound card together

Ive got dx 9.0...im going to roll back to 8.1 tomorrow and see how that works
anyone know how to roll it back safely?
Or do you just reinstall the driver over the new one?


Im going to bed now...but ill work on this more tomorrow...thanks for all the help so far

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Post #: 19
- 7/27/2003 4:16:18 PM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
[B]...
anyone know how to roll it back safely?
Or do you just reinstall the driver over the new one?...[/B][/QUOTE]

That's a tricky thing.
The best thing to do with XP would be a system recovery, but you might loose some programs or settings (everything you changed after installing DX9).
There are programs to de-install a newer DX version, but I don't know where to get them.
Just installing the older version won't help.

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Post #: 20
- 7/27/2003 5:50:38 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		FJ,

The best (only?) way to rollback your DirectX version is to use a clever little program called [B]DirectX Buster[/B]. :) I used it on my previous XP pro install when games started to fail on me. Will work for newer versions like DirectX 9.0 as well.

[URL=http://www.dxbuster.de/index_e.html]DirectX Buster[/URL]

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Got StuG?

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Post #: 21
- 7/27/2003 11:22:37 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		System recovery isnt an option

I put DX9 on the day it came out
thats too much to lose

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Post #: 22
- 7/28/2003 12:00:24 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		If you use DirectX buster to rollback to DirectX 8..., that is NOT equivalent to a system recovery. You will merely use an older DirectX set. :)

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Post #: 23
- 7/28/2003 1:29:23 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I cant get the DX buster to work...its not picking up my windows xp cd

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Post #: 24
- 7/28/2003 3:26:40 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I went back to dx 8.1...but it didnt help :(


Back to square one

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Post #: 25
- 7/28/2003 5:04:57 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		Falls.......go to http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/wwwboard.html only use xp forum, sign up, its free, post problem etc. should get results, works for moi

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Post #: 26
- 7/28/2003 6:04:09 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		:mad:


Totaly back to square one

I turned off all sound...and still got the slowdown
this is annoying

Is their a piece of software I can download to test my systems heat to see if its overheating?

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Post #: 27
- 7/28/2003 9:13:25 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		If you think it's heat, take the cover off and blow a fan on the unit while it is running the game.

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Post #: 28
- 7/28/2003 9:39:32 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nickel
[B]If you think it's heat, take the cover off and blow a fan on the unit while it is running the game. [/B][/QUOTE]


Its a notebook

Thats a tad bit hard :D


Ive let the computer sit for several hours...then I immediatly turned it on and lauched into a game...no dice

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Post #: 29
- 7/29/2003 5:29:33 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		I want to be sure I understand exactly where you are now. You have what DX version on your notebook? Regardless of DX version, have you tried to uninstall the sound card software? Use the sound card disk uninstall if it has one- may also take out registry entries where windows doesn't always do this. After removing the sound card software, do a search of My Computer for any files that relate to the sound card, especially any log files. Delete these if you have any. Turn off your PC and then start it fresh.This still leaves possible registry entries. Do you know how to find leftover registry entries from uninstalled programs? If not there are some programs - like McAfee Quick Clean that when installed have a registry cleaner and can remove left over entries safely.
After being sure that you have no leftover files from the sound card try reinstalling the software, check the manual on the card and make sure whether it makes a difference if you install the software before you plug in the device. But before you do this you may want to just see if the card runs with the windows default sound drivers. I am assuming that this notebook came with an onboard sound card. Is this device disabled in Device Manger?

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