How does OHQ Commander get killed in action?

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How does OHQ Commander get killed in action?

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How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 5:03:01 PM

jpwrunyan

Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline

I don't understand how OHQ commanders get killed in action.

Originally I thought it was a result of having your actual OHQ *in combat*.
So I decided to try playing a game where my OHQ would stay out of battle. Commander is safe right?

Nope. He just got killed.

What determines if an OHQ commander is killed? I know personal combat skill will help but... anything else? Is it just RNG?

Post #: 1

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 5:06:54 PM

Jdane

Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
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Yup, that's RNG but there are rules:

quote:

5.8.6.1. kIlled In aCtIon
Commanders do not always stay in their HQs and tend to visit their Units
in the field. During combat this can result in losing a Leader.
A Commander if having a very high Heroic personality can be considered
to always be present with one of all his/her Troops. If minimal Heroic the
Commander will always hug his/her desk in the HQ.
SHQ Commanders have half less chance to be present with their Troops
due to the nature of their jobs.
263
If the HQ is directly involved in combat the Commander will always be
present in the frontline, even if the Leader is a coward.
If the HQ is lost the Commanders always has to make a Personal Combat
roll to see if he/she can avoid being killed in action.
Governors can be killed in action if their Zone City is lost during combat.
Directors and Advisors can be killed in action if the Capital City is lost
during combat.
Advisors are always killed as well if the Leader they are embedded with is
killed. (they are presumed to have failed the skill roll together)
Losing your Capital is something you really want to avoid from happening.
Your Secretary always survives. So do the Leaders in the Replacement Pool.
It is also possible your Leader will be killed during some story event, a
Decision or due to a Stratagem.

Like you, I was very puzzled at first, but since there's a fair warning in the manual and some ways to mitigate the risk, I'm living with it now.

Plus, if military commanders never died, how would you get rid of high ranking bad leaders without spending tons of PPs to pay for the political costs of a demotion?

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/10/2020 5:10:00 PM >

(in reply to jpwrunyan)

Post #: 2

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 5:08:57 PM

Falke

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/13/2004
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If the OHQ is in combat, there will always be a roll for the commander being killed.
Every time a unit of the OHQ is in combat there is a chance that the commander is visiting, if yes then a kill roll is made.

(in reply to jpwrunyan)

Post #: 3

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 5:38:40 PM

GodwinW

Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
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I don't like this one. If I fight with the unit that has its icon: sure. If it gets hit by artillery: sure. But otherwise? Not a fan.

(in reply to Falke)

Post #: 4

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 6:06:22 PM

devoncop

Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I don't like this one. If I fight with the unit that has its icon: sure. If it gets hit by artillery: sure. But otherwise? Not a fan.

It may be inconvenient but it is certainly not unrealistic.

Just check how many Brigade,Divisional and Corps Commanders were killed in WW2 ....Rommel was badly wounded and put out of action many miles from the front, Model an army group commander no less was nearly captured during Market Garden and more than 200 British Generals were killed in WW1, a time when the front lines were far more static and rear areas less likely to be overrun than in Shadow Empire.

This also takes no account of partisan activity like the assassination of Heydrich so that is something to bear in mind when you are rolling through minor faction territories

I am more than happy to lose the odd General rather than have them be some invulnerable supermen (or superwomen).

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Post #: 5

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 6:09:09 PM

Jdane

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I'm sure every general who died in his car during an enemy ambush while inspecting the front agrees wholeheartedly.

Jest aside, I was quite frustrated by this rule at first, but I've been reading a tiny bit on commanding officers' mortality and am okay with it now. You just have to accept it's an abstraction because the game can't reasonably simulate units sending small scout parties behind the lines where they could get lucky and catch the enemy commander relieving himself in a bush, or an untimely shell hit just as the officer was going back to headquarters.

Otherwise you could always make sure your commanders would never die except by old age.

Edit : I've been too slow...

(in reply to GodwinW)

Post #: 6

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 6:31:48 PM

GodwinW

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You both miss 1 point ("invulnerable supermen" / "never die except by old age"):
No, when the OHQ unit is in combat they of course can die. Np. Or when it gets bombarded or w/e. SHQ and Governor if the city gets taken: of course.

Then my perspective: On this particular issue I do not care about realism. I am just not a fan of this aspect. As a player if it looks as if I can control him by his location then I do not like it if it turns out I must imagine him going over despite my direct orders marching him away from the front and potentially getting himself killed.

That it happened in real is fine. But I as the supreme commander give orders to those guys. If I want them on the front I will direct them towards it. If I do not, I keep that unit counter at home. I'm sure in reality it also hardly ever happened that a general went somewhere that the country's high command forbade him to go (if you want to look this up do remember that hexes are 200 km, so we're talking being 1000 km away from where they are supposed to be!).

(in reply to Jdane)

Post #: 7

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 6:39:37 PM

springel

Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW
But I as the supreme commander give orders to those guys. If I want them on the front I will direct them towards it. If I do not, I keep that unit counter at home.

And your general will put that order in the bin, and tells his secretary to keep you in the blind.

(in reply to GodwinW)

Post #: 8

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 6:43:00 PM

devoncop

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To be fair to the OP he uses the phrase "I do not care about realism"

At this point we are on completely different pages.

We shall agree to differ.

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RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 7:57:56 PM

Jdane

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Joined: 6/5/2020
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I concur though that the fact there's a HQ counter makes the player think he has control over the location of the commander, which is in fact not the case in the rules, and this can appear misleading.

And not liking this rule is perfectly in one's right. Who knows? Perhaps at some point it will become an optional rule, I don't know if it would be difficult to do or not, but it might be a suggestion to make.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/10/2020 7:59:13 PM >

(in reply to devoncop)

Post #: 10

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 8:10:37 PM

jpwrunyan

Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline

Thanks for the clarification guys. I'd all but given up on trying to find answers to my questions by checking the manual so it's ironic that this question was actually answered there.

Relationship with manual +15%.

(in reply to Jdane)

Post #: 11

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 9:00:53 PM

Yskonyn

Posts: 189
Joined: 6/27/2008
Status: offline

Think of the counter in the scale of the game; the HQ counter does not portray only your leader, but officers and support/admin staff, security detail, etc.
Its easy for a few to visit their front line troops while the order for the rest of the HQ unit to remain far from the frontline.
At least the manual is honest about it. :)

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RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 9:41:41 PM

RobearGWJ

Posts: 44
Joined: 7/10/2010
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Accounts from the Ukraine show deliberate targeting of leaders as they move around between units. It gets very sophisticated, there are a ton of ways to do it with today's tech, much less the (presumed) tech in this game. In the real world, the Russians have been able to decapitate units at the start of an attack with clever tactics and targeting of leaders. I think it's realistic to have the OHQ leaders in danger during operations.

(in reply to Yskonyn)

Post #: 13

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/10/2020 11:17:44 PM

NoodlePickle

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/15/2019
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Ah, I thought it was a bug when my commander died. Is there a way to replace him/her over time?

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Post #: 14

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/11/2020 4:22:47 AM

Tssha

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoodlePickle

Ah, I thought it was a bug when my commander died. Is there a way to replace him/her over time?

Yep. There's many stratagems for hiring new leaders. Not just junior or hire merc, but also hiring a senior person from your military, and perhaps some others I haven't seen yet. Invest in Human Resources to get these cards (Interior ministry).

You also sometimes get party appointees in random events, but I cannot guarantee their quality.

Your OHQ will ask for another leader at the beginning of your next turn.

(in reply to NoodlePickle)

Post #: 15

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/11/2020 6:47:18 AM

diamondspider

Posts: 141
Joined: 5/15/2020
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Just lost 2 of my 3 top commanders in one turn. One of whom was super elite and the core of my entire line... can't say I mind too much, but perhaps take the odds down a bit. One commander I noticed had a heroic around 23 and still got killed. Of course the OHQs were not in the combat.

(in reply to Tssha)

Post #: 16

RE: How does OHQ Commander get killed in action? - 6/11/2020 7:22:43 AM

Malevolence

Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
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https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4825911

I seriously thought I was having a deja vu moment until I was able to find this thread again.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/11/2020 7:23:12 AM >

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Post #: 17