How do you read the bottlenecks overlay?

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How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/10/2020 8:16:02 PM

jpwrunyan

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I am constantly having trouble with logistics, even if I have enough logistics points and resources.

The only time things display angry colors at me is when I check the bottlenecks overlay, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it's trying to tell me. I understand that red and black is bad, but everything else is a happy thick like. I don't understand what the percentages mean either...? I'm guessing the one in parentheses is an adjusted value from the normal value? What are these percentages *of* though??? Why is it sometimes parentheses on top and not bottom? And why is it angry at me when there's nothing there on the map? No units are cutting me off... I just don't know what I'm supposed to do, except suffer. Is this game secretly actually a suffering simulator? The real casualty of war is consumerism?

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/10/2020 8:26:01 PM

springel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

I am constantly having trouble with logistics, even if I have enough logistics points and resources.

The only time things display angry colors at me is when I check the bottlenecks overlay, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it's trying to tell me. I understand that red and black is bad, but everything else is a happy thick like. I don't understand what the percentages mean either...? I'm guessing the one in parentheses is an adjusted value from the normal value? What are these percentages *of* though??? Why is it sometimes parentheses on top and not bottom? And why is it angry at me when there's nothing there on the map? No units are cutting me off... I just don't know what I'm supposed to do, except suffer. Is this game secretly actually a suffering simulator? The real casualty of war is consumerism?

It is the percentage of LIS since the start of the turn. Black means that all LIS on that road have been used already, possibly leaving stuff behind. So it is current divided by initial.

But black may be OK when it is just a road to a static resource where you don't intend to do Strategic Moves, or deploy new units or replacements.

(in reply to jpwrunyan)

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/10/2020 8:41:38 PM

Jdane

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I have not groked the logistics system yet, but basically the Bottlenecks filter tells you how much stress there is in your supply chain and where. If it's black you're trying to transport much more Items than you have trucks on this road (or trains on that track, whatever).

You should look at the SHQ's Supply stats, the bottom section, you should see bars indicating which phase of the supply process is causing trouble.

If you look at the Initial Points filter, you'll see the maximum amount of logistical points that was allotted to a section of road at the start of the turn, and if you look a the Current Points filter you'll see there is not a single one left wherever it's black and I very well believe red, or if not a tiny sliver. If you look at Points Used you'll see indeed all the logistical points where consumed during the supply process while trying to fetch Items or replacements, depending on the case.

You need to increase the transport capacity allotted to the bottle-necked sections. There are several ways, such as redirecting traffic there from less traveled roads using traffic signs, or upgrading a truck station nearby.

At first I couldn't make heads or tails of the Bottlenecks view either, it takes some time getting used to, but I found switching views helped me understand.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/10/2020 8:44:00 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/10/2020 8:55:32 PM

jpwrunyan

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Thing is, everything else looks fine. I get that my SHQ is telling me it can move stuff. That's just the same information in a different format (numbers as opposed to the visual map display). I got green lines to all my units, so it *looks* like the trucks are getting there? Just not the supplies? Huh? And like I have one fork in the road adjacent to my SHQ (a Y shape). The first block is black to the fork in the road, then all the colors start happening. Still very confused.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/11/2020 8:09:38 PM

Grotius

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I have much the same question as in the original post. In particular: what does it mean when there are two percentages in the same hex, one of which is parentheses and one not?

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/11/2020 10:09:13 PM

jpwrunyan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I have much the same question as in the original post. In particular: what does it mean when there are two percentages in the same hex, one of which is parentheses and one not?

I'm about to post a new thread with this exact question if no one answers it. I still don't get it.

Of all the logistics overlays, the bottlenecks one is the most mysterious. Like Black is Bad, but I have black in the weirdest places like one hex from my city and then green and yellow past the first hex. So much of this overlay doesn't really make sense.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/11/2020 10:40:52 PM

Destragon

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The second percentage number in brackets is the one thing I don't understand about this overlay either.
But I guess it might mean something like how much of the demanded supplies reached the unit? I don't have an example right now where I can check it.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 6/11/2020 10:46:25 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/11/2020 10:49:32 PM

Grotius

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Please do post a new thread with that question!

I also don't fully understand the "logistics used so far this turn" overlay. What exactly constitutes "use" of an asset so far? Even at the start of a turn, a unit seems already to have "used" logistical points, whereas assets have not. Units draw supplies at the start of my turn, whereas assets don't draw until the end of the turn? Is that the idea?

I also have trouble understanding how the numbers of "used" logistics add up. They add up on the roads/rails; starting minus used = current. But I have trouble accounting for how units (with their green dotted operational logistics lines) are accounted for.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/11/2020 11:52:11 PM

Destragon

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There's no point in making a new thread about the same exact subject. It just pushes all the other threads down, making it harder for those to get noticed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I also don't fully understand the "logistics used so far this turn" overlay. What exactly constitutes "use" of an asset so far? Even at the start of a turn, a unit seems already to have "used" logistical points, whereas assets have not. Units draw supplies at the start of my turn, whereas assets don't draw until the end of the turn? Is that the idea?

I'm not sure on this, but I think assets don't 'consume' logistics at all? They just seem to require logistics to be on their tile. When you click on an asset, it will say something like "asset needed 200 logistical points and 500 were present".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I also have trouble understanding how the numbers of "used" logistics add up. They add up on the roads/rails; starting minus used = current. But I have trouble accounting for how units (with their green dotted operational logistics lines) are accounted for.

I'm not really understanding what exactly you're asking about. Those coloured operational logistics lines tell you how many logistics the units used up to get their supplies. If multiple operational logistics lines are overlapping, they get summed up.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 1:37:25 AM

Grotius

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Thanks for the answer on assets. Now that I've reviewed the manual, I realize you're exactly right: assets simply require the presence of logistical points -- they don't consume them.

I'm sorry I didn't phrase my other question well. I now understand my confusion. I'd forgotten that the Operational Logistical Points are completely separate from normal logistical points. The numbers by the dotted line indicate the "weight" of all the stuff that units picked up. Sometimes the numbers are larger when two units walked through the same hex to grab supplies. That's what was confusing me. (That and the fact that "5" and "6" look very similar on the map, so I thought the math wasn't adding up. But it does add up.) So, never mind!

So my only remaining question, for now, is the one we all asked earlier: why are there two sets of percentage numbers on many hexes in "bottleneck" mode -- one number in parentheses and one not?

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 1:42:33 AM

jpwrunyan

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One thing that is hard to understand which I think he was referring to is the difference between units' operational logistics (the dotted colored lines) and the LIS point usage of your logistics infrastructure. I think I get that a nice green dotted line means absolutely nothing if there's nothing for the unit to pick up from the road drop-off. So the dotted operational logistics lines are really only good for telling us *where* on the road network we need to make sure we have LIS points. And then getting goods to "move" to that point on the network is the bigger problem. Finally, to make matters worse, food "moves" differently than all the other resources.

The bottlenecks overlay is kinda crap in my opinion. It needed at least a page of explanation in the manual dedicated to it.

Reposting the much narrower question of: "What does the number in parentheses in the bottlenecks overlay mean?" has merit because it's more concrete and solvable sounding than the OP which was just generally asking "How do you read this overlay?"

I'm still hoping someone will explain how to read this overlay by the numbers, but if not, I'll ask the specific question and see if that gets an answer. At least then I'll understand one of its mysteries.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 2:57:15 AM

Destragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

So my only remaining question, for now, is the one we all asked earlier: why are there two sets of percentage numbers on many hexes in "bottleneck" mode -- one number in parentheses and one not?

Well, the percentage without parenthesis was already explained and it's looking to me like the parenthesis percentage refers to operational logistics and is only displayed with the parenthesis when it's on the same tile as normal logistics. I assume so that you can see which one is operational logistics and which one is normal.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 4:14:35 AM

Grotius

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Ah right, the number not in parentheses is current divided by initial. And it's plausible the parenthetical number relates to operational logistics, as I see it only on road branches that contain units. I'll watch it more closely over the next few turns.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 5:39:15 AM

jpwrunyan

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I don't get how this could be operational logistics. That is what units use to get to supplies. It should only be the dashed line on the map. I don't think operational logistics should overlap with LIS. I'm going to sleep and see if that helps.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 1:53:23 PM

Destragon

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Compare the bottleneck overlay with the "used points" overlay. The parentheses only seem to show up when operational logistics travel on a road.
I think they overlap with normal logistics because the units try to resupply themselves from the best logistics spot, not from the closest one.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/12/2020 8:44:56 PM

jpwrunyan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Compare the bottleneck overlay with the "used points" overlay. The parentheses only seem to show up when operational logistics travel on a road.
I think they overlap with normal logistics because the units try to resupply themselves from the best logistics spot, not from the closest one.

Yes, you are correct.

This comparison between views is finally starting to register. The only info I'm missing is a sort of "demand points" overlay telling me how many LIS I need to divert. I've finally had a Eureka moment with this GUI.

Edit: woops. Wrong thread. I thought this was the other. I'm trying to retire this one.

< Message edited by jpwrunyan -- 6/12/2020 8:46:29 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 12:41:33 PM

WCG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

Of all the logistics overlays, the bottlenecks one is the most mysterious. Like Black is Bad, but I have black in the weirdest places like one hex from my city and then green and yellow past the first hex.

That's what I don't understand, either. I've got one truck station. How can I have a black bottleneck close to that truck station, but not when I get further away from it?

If the LP is all used up in one stretch of road, why isn't everything past that stretch of road black? But that's not what the bottleneck overlay shows me.

I could understand some confusion with multiple sources of LP. But this is also what happens when all I've got is one source!

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 9:45:02 PM

jpwrunyan

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It's due to the fact that logistics is *weird* in this game. At the start of the turn, you have LP saturated in each hex along the road. And of course, your perfectly logical grounded-in-reality brain thinks "Oh, I used up all my LP capacity in hex 0,1; so surely there's no more trucks to go down the road". Untrue. If hex 0,1 has 200 LP and hex 1,1 has 200 LP and a combined force of units drains all the LP from hex 0,1 that has *no* impact on the amount of LP that was assigned to 1,1 and so forth down the road. So hex 0,1 is black and hex 1,1 can be a happy green if no one is using it get pull LP off-road to units on the map. I hope that helps.

For a simple example of this happening, send one of your units off-road down your logistics network. You'll probably see on your remaining LP overlay something like 200, 200, 190, 200, 200... along your road. 10 points pull off for your unit from the *one* hex, but all the others still have their capacity. If it worked like a flow of trucks delivering goods in an intuitive way, your brain would expect (perhaps) to see 200, 200, 190, 190, 190.... But your brain would be wrong in the abstract math-land of Shadow Empire logistics.

The bottlenecks overlay converts the used pts with initial pts to create a percentage use value. So the above (correct) example would be 100%, 100%, 95%, 100%, 100%.

By the way, I think there's a good reason for why the logistics system is implemented in this counter-intuitive way. It would be much more difficult to implement logistics in the way I feel is intuitive (I have 400 trucks in my empire to send out and when some of them are used in hex 0, 1, they no longer become available from hex 1, 1 and beyond). The path finding of units to account for truck pick-up locations as trucks get pulled off in such a way is much more complicated than the simpler system used where each hex just "has trucks" independent of the adjacent hexes. Hope that makes sense.

(in reply to WCG)

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 9:53:34 PM

btonasse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WCG

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

Of all the logistics overlays, the bottlenecks one is the most mysterious. Like Black is Bad, but I have black in the weirdest places like one hex from my city and then green and yellow past the first hex.

That's what I don't understand, either. I've got one truck station. How can I have a black bottleneck close to that truck station, but not when I get further away from it?

If the LP is all used up in one stretch of road, why isn't everything past that stretch of road black? But that's not what the bottleneck overlay shows me.

I could understand some confusion with multiple sources of LP. But this is also what happens when all I've got is one source!

This. It makes no sense that a road gets black and then green again a few hexes further when there is only one source of log points.

The logistics system is great and all, but the lack of proper feedback is really a bummer. Information is either unclear/incomplete or all over the place... :/

(in reply to WCG)

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 9:58:04 PM

btonasse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

It's due to the fact that logistics is *weird* in this game. At the start of the turn, you have LP saturated in each hex along the road. And of course, your perfectly logical grounded-in-reality brain thinks "Oh, I used up all my LP capacity in hex 0,1; so surely there's no more trucks to go down the road". Untrue. If hex 0,1 has 200 LP and hex 1,1 has 200 LP and a combined force of units drains all the LP from hex 0,1 that has *no* impact on the amount of LP that was assigned to 1,1 and so forth down the road. So hex 0,1 is black and hex 1,1 can be a happy green if no one is using it get pull LP off-road to units on the map. I hope that helps.

For a simple example of this happening, send one of your units off-road down your logistics network. You'll probably see on your remaining LP overlay something like 200, 200, 190, 200, 200... along your road. 10 points pull off for your unit from the *one* hex, but all the others still have their capacity. If it worked like a flow of trucks delivering goods in an intuitive way, your brain would expect (perhaps) to see 200, 200, 190, 190, 190.... But your brain would be wrong in the abstract math-land of Shadow Empire logistics.

The bottlenecks overlay converts the used pts with initial pts to create a percentage use value. So the above (correct) example would be 100%, 100%, 95%, 100%, 100%.

By the way, I think there's a good reason for why the logistics system is implemented in this counter-intuitive way. It would be much more difficult to implement logistics in the way I feel is intuitive (I have 400 trucks in my empire to send out and when some of them are used in hex 0, 1, they no longer become available from hex 1, 1 and beyond). The path finding of units to account for truck pick-up locations as trucks get pulled off in such a way is much more complicated than the simpler system used where each hex just "has trucks" independent of the adjacent hexes. Hope that makes sense.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Unless I'm really misunderstanding the system it's not at all how it works.

If I have 1000 LPs and one 4-hex road, each hex will display 1000 points. If your explanation was true this would mean that I actually have 4000 LPs, and not a 1000. And this is obviously not the case.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:13:57 PM

jpwrunyan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btonasse

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

It's due to the fact that logistics is *weird* in this game. At the start of the turn, you have LP saturated in each hex along the road. And of course, your perfectly logical grounded-in-reality brain thinks "Oh, I used up all my LP capacity in hex 0,1; so surely there's no more trucks to go down the road". Untrue. If hex 0,1 has 200 LP and hex 1,1 has 200 LP and a combined force of units drains all the LP from hex 0,1 that has *no* impact on the amount of LP that was assigned to 1,1 and so forth down the road. So hex 0,1 is black and hex 1,1 can be a happy green if no one is using it get pull LP off-road to units on the map. I hope that helps.

For a simple example of this happening, send one of your units off-road down your logistics network. You'll probably see on your remaining LP overlay something like 200, 200, 190, 200, 200... along your road. 10 points pull off for your unit from the *one* hex, but all the others still have their capacity. If it worked like a flow of trucks delivering goods in an intuitive way, your brain would expect (perhaps) to see 200, 200, 190, 190, 190.... But your brain would be wrong in the abstract math-land of Shadow Empire logistics.

The bottlenecks overlay converts the used pts with initial pts to create a percentage use value. So the above (correct) example would be 100%, 100%, 95%, 100%, 100%.

By the way, I think there's a good reason for why the logistics system is implemented in this counter-intuitive way. It would be much more difficult to implement logistics in the way I feel is intuitive (I have 400 trucks in my empire to send out and when some of them are used in hex 0, 1, they no longer become available from hex 1, 1 and beyond). The path finding of units to account for truck pick-up locations as trucks get pulled off in such a way is much more complicated than the simpler system used where each hex just "has trucks" independent of the adjacent hexes. Hope that makes sense.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Unless I'm really misunderstanding the system it's not at all how it works.

If I have 1000 LPs and one 4-hex road, each hex will display 1000 points. If your explanation was true this would mean that I actually have 4000 LPs, and not a 1000. And this is obviously not the case.

You are correctly reading my message. And you have precisely identified what makes the logistics system counter-intuitive IMO.

But truly, a 1000LP / 50AP logistics center means it's going to put 1000 points into each hex up to 50 AP away, assuming a single road from the origin. In case of two roads, it will send 500 points in each hex up to 50 AP away on each road. So on and so forth.

Past 50 AP, it pushes 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% to each hex after that (assuming a dirt road with 10 AP per hex cost).

The formula, as I infer it, for AP range penalty is: (AP spent - 50) * .02 (with 0 being the minimum penalty). So 60/50 AP hex gets 10 * .02 = .2 penalty. AKA 20% penalty. At 100/50 AP and beyond you get 100% penalty and your logistics extent runs out.

PS I would be happy to be proven wrong on this, but after hours of staring at the logistics overlay and consulting the manual, I'm confident this is how the logistics points works.

< Message edited by jpwrunyan -- 6/17/2020 10:16:12 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:15:02 PM

GodwinW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WCG

That's what I don't understand, either. I've got one truck station. How can I have a black bottleneck close to that truck station, but not when I get further away from it?

Because it's a bottleneck, not a plug.

See Logistics Points as water. And roads as pipes. And the pipes can only ever decrease in size, never increase (unless with building Truck Stations or upgrading them). They can also stay the same size for quite some hexes distance.

Bottlenecks are places where the pipe is too small for the amount of water (Logistics) that should ideally flow through it.
But after the water has forced as much as it can (100%) through that part of the pipe, and whatever wanted it has gotten what it got from it, the rest continues on its way and may be used a bit, a little or a lot later down the flow.

Edit: I'm seeing new posts pop up as I was typing. Does my metaphor make it easier?

I hope so because to me this makes it easy to intuitively understand. I'm very willing to elaborate.

< Message edited by GodwinW -- 6/17/2020 10:20:12 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:25:16 PM

jpwrunyan

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The problem with the logistics system is that there really is no real-world analogy that fits.

"Bottlenecks are places where the pipe is too small for the amount of water (Logistics) that should ideally flow through it." To me this phrasing means exactly like a plug... which is why I feel analogies are failing us at this point.

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:40:40 PM

btonasse

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Yeah, don't understand the point of the logistics if that's really how it works. And it's definitely not what I took from the manual.

Let me see if I understand your explanation:

I have a 4-hex road starting on hex A, passing through hex B and ending in hex C.
Hex A is both the source of 1000 LPs and the seat of SHQ.
Hex B somehow uses 1000 LPs (sending or receiving stuff from SHQ, for example)
Hex C also needs 1000LPs.

According to your explanation I would have no logistic issues, since both hex B and C use 1000LPs and are in range.

And, had Hex B needed 1500 LPs, it would of course be missing 500, but that wouldn't affect Hex C at all?

This makes zero sense to me, but it's quite late, so maybe tomorrow (or some day) I will get it... :/

(in reply to jpwrunyan)

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:47:50 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

I am constantly having trouble with logistics, even if I have enough logistics points and resources.

The only time things display angry colors at me is when I check the bottlenecks overlay, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it's trying to tell me.

The Bottleneck interface is trying to tell you:
There are the bottlenecks, based on last turns actuall usage.
Logistics assets have a range and a capacity. Both need to be enough.

I made a whole thing about this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4834257

quote:

ORIGINAL: btonasse

Yeah, don't understand the point of the logistics if that's really how it works. And it's definitely not what I took from the manual.

Let me see if I understand your explanation:

I have a 4-hex road starting on hex A, passing through hex B and ending in hex C.
Hex A is both the source of 1000 LPs and the seat of SHQ.
Hex B somehow uses 1000 LPs (sending or receiving stuff from SHQ, for example)
Hex C also needs 1000LPs.

According to your explanation I would have no logistic issues, since both hex B and C use 1000LPs and are in range.

And, had Hex B needed 1500 LPs, it would of course be missing 500, but that wouldn't affect Hex C at all?

This makes zero sense to me, but it's quite late, so maybe tomorrow (or some day) I will get it... :/

All buildings and zones need to be connecte via a road (to the city or SHQ, respectively). The road splits Logistics points. 500 going towards B and C each.

Note that assets do not actually consume any Logistics. The just need enough points "passing through" their hex.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/17/2020 10:49:33 PM >

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 10:58:10 PM

btonasse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

All buildings and zones need to be connecte via a road (to the city or SHQ, respectively). The road splits Logistics points. 500 going towards B and C each.

Note that assets do not actually consume any Logistics. The just need enough points "passing through" their hex.

Maybe my example was not clear enough. How can the road split the LPs if there's no junction? I meant this: A-B-C. One same road, two hexes that need LPs.

And I'm not talking about assets either. I mean any scenario where the LPs are actually "consumed" (zone requests/deliveries or unit supply)

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RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 11:10:36 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btonasse

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

All buildings and zones need to be connecte via a road (to the city or SHQ, respectively). The road splits Logistics points. 500 going towards B and C each.

Note that assets do not actually consume any Logistics. The just need enough points "passing through" their hex.

Maybe my example was not clear enough. How can the road split the LPs if there's no junction? I meant this: A-B-C. One same road, two hexes that need LPs.

And I'm not talking about assets either. I mean any scenario where the LPs are actually "consumed" (zone requests/deliveries or unit supply)

You mean City A->City B->City C?
The 1000 Truck Points start at City A.
Go through City B,
End at City C.

If you try to send 1000 to B and 1000 to C:
- 1000 Points are used up by A->B
- 0 Points availible for A->C
No delviery to C. Bottleneck will mark this part as black.

Solution:
Add another 1000 points going A->B or B->A at least. That way both could receive their 1000 units.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/17/2020 11:12:54 PM >

(in reply to btonasse)

Post #: 27

RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 11:18:53 PM

Kamelpov

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Joined: 2/22/2020
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If you talk about consumption if A B C are on the same road if b only use 500 C may use less than 500 due to distance decay else if you got a supply depot at B you may have 500 for C if it's at less than 5 hex with road.
A-B <= 5
B-C <= 5
if B use 1000 well C get nothing

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 28

RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 11:22:07 PM

GodwinW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

The problem with the logistics system is that there really is no real-world analogy that fits.

"Bottlenecks are places where the pipe is too small for the amount of water (Logistics) that should ideally flow through it." To me this phrasing means exactly like a plug... which is why I feel analogies are failing us at this point.

No. A plug to me is a place where you stop a flow. Not where you are limited by the capacity of the pipe (literally think about a bottle: the bottleneck dictates the speed at which the fluid drains).

Maybe to make it more clear I should talk about the whole system and differentiate between LIS and trucks as well.

In this case, Logistics is the maximum water that can be in that part of the pipe (let's call it water capacity now then), the Trucks are the waterflow, what you need is an amount of flow (NOT a one-time amount of water, you need a certain flow!)

Let's try this:

3 hexes distance: A -> B -> C
1000 LIS preview on all 3 hexes.
Let's say there's a unit on hex B which needs 2000 points of transported goods.

So in our metaphor: we have a pipe through which flows water. The pipe is 3 hexes long. The pipe can have a maximum flow of 1000 at all 3 parts of it.

Display Toggle: Bottlenecks

Green -> Black -> Green
Because 100% of the waterflow is being used at hex B (by the unit). It wanted 200%, but 100% is all it got (because higher than 100% doesn't exist).

For me this is intuitive.
It's not as if using the water at B (for example by using it to cool a hot item) (recall that pipes are roads so only roads can move the water of the road.. you need to see the need of units etc. as a need for the flow, for example the need to have x water flow/second in order to cool something down) removes it from flowing further down the line. But it DOES indicate that unless you need exactly 100% that you needed more than you had at that specific part of the pipe.

LIS can never ever increase ever without another faucet (truck stop). It runs down the pipes. The weird part I guess is that the water stops (pipes start leaking after a distance I guess :p).

< Message edited by GodwinW -- 6/17/2020 11:25:39 PM >

(in reply to jpwrunyan)

Post #: 29

RE: How do you read the bottlenecks overlay? - 6/17/2020 11:34:32 PM

btonasse

Posts: 40
Joined: 6/15/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

You mean City A->City B->City C?
The 1000 Truck Points start at City A.
Go through City B,
End at City C.

If you try to send 1000 to B and 1000 to C:
- 1000 Points are used up by A->B
- 0 Points availible for A->C
No delviery to C. Bottleneck will mark this part as black.

Solution:
Add another 1000 points going A->B or B->A at least. That way both could receive their 1000 units.

Yes, that was exactly my interpretation of it too, but this contradicts what jpwrunyan and GodwinW are saying. And also doesn't explain why further down the line after the LPs have been used up the overlay shows points again.

So we have two groups of people saying completely different things and I don't know who is right. If only the manual actually explained things like this...

< Message edited by btonasse -- 6/17/2020 11:37:33 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 30