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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess

 
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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 9:59:00 PM   
Jdane


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Organic logistics would be much better indeed.
OLIS being its hallowed name.

This game could really use a polish pass on its terminology to make it more consistent with the English language. But I won't throw the first stone since I myself am not a native speaker and am making my share of mistakes. As it stands, the current terminology manages to convey the message somehow.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 10:02:06 PM   
Hellkyte

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jdane

Hellkyte, since if I'm not mistaken a unit only gets its supplies from a SHQ, the answer would be no.


Ah ok, that's what I thought, for a second I was thinking troops could be supplied locally, which would be a huge thing. But not the worst deal, just means that you really will have to use multiple SHQs if you want to run lean.

Kind of curious how many folks are doing that, because that's going to be massively significant for the efficiency of your logistics.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 10:20:10 PM   
GodwinW


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OP = Operational Points.

quote:

It is important to keep in mind that the Logistical Network only extends
itself over railroads or roads.
These roads have to connect one City or SHQ to another in order for them
to be in the same Logistical Network.
The Roads do not have to go directly to OHQs and Units since they have
Operational Logistics to pick up (or deliver) their supplies on a nearby Road Hex.

(p 307 in the manual)

Edit: 4.5.9 is the basic section about it.

< Message edited by GodwinW -- 6/12/2020 10:23:06 PM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 10:24:32 PM   
Laiders

 

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Personally, as I have mentioned elsewhere (seem to be doing more posting than playing this evening, probably because I'm tired and, great as the game is, it's kinda effort), tend to run lean logistics operations with the bare minimum infrastructure to get the job done. I build one truck station where two would be prudent and, it seems from posts in this thread, most players would build three.

I have not tried the black art of multiple SHQs because it scares me and I've never been in a situation where I have found it absolutely necessary. My current game is going to start reaching that point pretty soon as I eat my first ever major. I'll read the manual on it again tomorrow and report back once it's done.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 11:33:39 PM   
Hellkyte

 

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Without multiple SHQs you're going to be spending double the LPs than you would need to in a lot of places. I'm thinking you'll have to sooner or later. I haven't played with it myself yet, but I'm going to take a shot at it tonight.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 11:44:33 PM   
Jdane


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You certainly don't need a second SHQ when you just conquered your first zone. I learned this the rough way.
But the more you expand, the more you're justified to do it.
In my opinion, the best move would be to create a new SHQ as soon as you get your hands on a zone that is really self-sufficient, in other words, another major's capital.
Otherwise you're just asking for trouble and a significant amount of micro management to transfer essential resources from your 1st SHQ to the 2nd.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/12/2020 11:45:40 PM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 11:54:43 PM   
Laiders

 

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That was my intuition at first glance. As I have just done that and almost finished mop up, I'll do it and see what happens. I think it will be kinda a waste as I don't think there is anything beyond the ex-major's capital zone. The next major, my tight frenemy, is to the south of my own starting zone (so in easy supply range) and all known minors have been gobbled by this point or will be soon.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/12/2020 11:58:58 PM   
Jdane


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In this case, just keep it centralized and give it a try.
You can always raise a SHQ later if that's causing issues.

The main challenge would occur if you'd ever need to move your 1st SHQ with its humongous inventory, should you want let's say to split your domain in two main regions and your capital's situation end up being not ideal.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/12/2020 11:59:49 PM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 1:51:20 AM   
liq3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders

Obviously, the game cannot be switched to a pull system and it is not clear if flipping things would make anything better.

Well, as you pointed out maybe "pull" is the wrong word. LP consumers can absolutely create LP where they need it, on demand, instead of the current system where it's pushed down roads evenly. Such a demand based system only runs into problems when there's an LP shortage. The other issue would be Strategic Move, as LP wouldn't exist until it's used. It'd likely end up receiving an unintended buff in flexibility and reduce the amount of planning the player needs to do to use it well.

Programming wise it does present some problems though. If there's just one logistic provider it's an easy problem to solve. When you have multiple overlapping the same roads range wise, and limited LPs, it becomes quite a bit harder though.

Personally I'd be pretty happy if we just got road signs that cap a direction at a specific number, instead of a percentage. That'd at least stop upstream road sign changes affecting downstream, and drastically reduce wasted LPs and micro.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 2:00:38 AM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders
I build one truck station where two would be prudent and, it seems from posts in this thread, most players would build three.


Interesting... I've been upgrading my one Truck Station per city. I didn't think building another close by was a good idea financially. Do you recommend building more than one per zone?

Aside, as was written here, you need a second localized and strong industrial base to satisfy a second SHQ.


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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:15:29 AM   
Laiders

 

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After a couple hours fitful sleep, I've decided to give you an answer now. It's the weekend so might as well play some Shadow Empire at 4am like a sane person does.

My current empire contains 1 L2 truck station, 1 and a half L1 truck station and no fuel depots. All truck assets are public. There is a single partial stretch of paved road from my capital up to about half the total distance of my army supply route. That route is approximately 32 hexes long and the paved section is approximately 18. These counts are inclusive of city hexes so they may be slightly over. Subtract 3 to exclude cities. The L2 and L1 are in my core territories in the east, my capital and first conquered minor respectively. The half is in the recently conquered capital of my first defeated major. It's at half capacity due to worker shortages due to unrest etc. Apparently I am odd in that I always incorporate zones on conquest and just deal with the whining and riots for a while until things simmer down. Can't have no foreigners in the empire after all! Only good Smiths!

I have about 5000 total LP pushing a route about 26 or 27 hexes long with the ~500 LP kicking in for the last 5-6 hexes. That mostly serves to smooth the connection to my army. The supplied army at the end of this route consists of 2 infantry brigades with independent buggy battalions attached, 1 GR unit about 500 strong attached and a handful of milita (mostly trucks in fact as the actual combat units have died and not been replaced). The unit card numbers for the militia are 12 and 4 respectively but I don't know if that really equates to 1,600 men requiring supply.

Of course, this supply picture is woefully incomplete. Every town has an MG regiment as a garrison, except the newly conquered former capital, so that's 4 regiments that need supply. I have 5 independent units acting as hex garrisons or explorers who need supply. I have a small second front against a hunter minor to the north of my MSR that needs to be held at all costs. One of the aforementioned buggy units attached to my infantry brigades is actually on this front along with a unit of 10 Sentinels and hastily raised independent biker battalion. I thought those bastards were dead, killed by the major before I killed it. They were merely given a licking instead and they emerged to raid my MSR at a critical junction in knocking out Zandbund's (the major) ability to fight and their capital.

That's just the units supply situation. I also have city development and pacification to worry about. All compounded by AI/pregen road gore and a nasty spot of border gore that forced my MSR on a detour several hundred miles north. I invaded Zandbund after I noticed my southern best frenemy, the Herzkau Dominion, had already invaded them. Zandbund had bitten off more than they could chew and were fighting minors on too many fronts. Against a determined and proximate major, they would collapse. I could not allow the Herzkau, on parity or slightly ahead of me, to take several villages and a second major city. We raced each other to capture key roads and cut lines of advance. I won the race but key parts of the southern supply route fell under Herzkau control and like good best frenemies they won't let me use it.

You know when you set off to answer a simple question and write an AAR instead...

Imgur blog with pics and short AAR

I'll go cross post this with some more detail in Jdane's one-off AARs thread.

So to answer your question, I don't know what I recommend. Figure out what works for you. I don't even know what I'm doing any more.

Okay okay TL;DR one truck station per zone definitely if poss. Nationalise your cap and upgrade to 2 ASAP. Used sealed roads if you cannot afford more truck stations. Even partial paving works wonders. ONLY pave your MSRs. Do not pave secondary routes or connections to minor hex assets. Otherwise, you are just siphoning more supply away from your MSRs making the rest of your logistics planning harder. Figure out what works for your situation based on population density, likely threats and their disposition, likely necessity of rapid redeployment over what distance and supply requirements of deployed forces. Those are the key factors to planning your military logistics. Then add in spare capacity to make sure you fully service civilian needs as well.

Though if you want a ratio, I have 5 zones, all populated, and 3.5 truck stations so about 1.4 populated zones per truck station or 1.25 populated zones per truck station assuming the one in Zwennitz comes fully online.

< Message edited by Laiders -- 6/13/2020 4:16:50 AM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:21:03 AM   
Malevolence


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As aside, you should write AAR's. Compelling story. Very good storyboarding on imgur.

I use leg infantry for my independent garrison regiments. They get super cheap gear in their own model. Their job is to kill workers. I believe quantity of soldiers matter in those events... MG's have less soldiers. Maybe defensive attack values do matter and I'm wrong.

Roads between zones are very inefficient. Use rail. I have not found an optimum for rail lines in hexes with roads or without roads. You cant deny delivery from a hex so I cant order the rail line to only move goods. It does offer separate traffic signals, however.

I keep my road routes with 7-8 hexes of space between, depending on terrain. I dislike AI road spam as well.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/13/2020 4:37:00 AM >


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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 5:01:25 AM   
Laiders

 

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I'm aware of rail. Remember most of this expansion has happened in about 20 turns, maybe less. Currently only on round 56. Kinda hard to build railroads at the moment because those tiny villages all need set up work and I had to fix an accidental energy crunch, among other things. Leaves me kinda strapped for IP with having to both reinforce my armies, upgrade my infantry to using combat armour and raise scratch forces to deal with new minor threats. Seedtop and Ironkeep were so close together it did not seem worth building the rail connection. Maybe that was a mistake and I was too miserly.

I use MGs because MGs have better defensive stats against actual attackers not against rioters. I expect Herzkau to stop being a frenemy and start being an enemy soon. Plus I had some awful experience with raiders on a few Planetoid starts I tried. I want garrisons that can dig in and kill. Core cities have random supplementary militia units or hex garrisons that might be in range in the event of major riots and I have enough cash and good enough governors that I normally don't need to resort to massacres in the heartland. On that note, time to go raise AT or RPG battalions to give those garrisons some hard attack and defence.

I'm aware of rules like repeat truck stations every 8 hexes (this might cause admin strain if followed too religiously BTW) but I wanted to provide a counter example where active management of a logistical network (I've set a lot of traffic signs, most I can forget about, but the road network is subject to turnly review and adjustment in case I miss something) can achieve outcomes most players dismiss as fanciful, exaggeration or outright impossible. All my supply needs are met by this monstrosity. My logistical constraint is resources, by which I mean available IP, not supply. Not true, while writing this comment, I found a missed traffic sign to a mine that might have caused a bottleneck preventing construction in a village. Then again, it might be the fact I have 0 IP and a bunch of projects under way.

< Message edited by Laiders -- 6/13/2020 5:23:51 AM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 5:28:36 AM   
Malevolence


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Regarding Herzkau, why not vassal them? It's a safe, Major Regime tripwire that pays tribute.


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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 5:38:46 AM   
Laiders

 

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Umm... Herzkau are a full-blown major on parity with me. They have now fallen below parity economically, or will once I get the former capital online, but were definitely ahead before that. I think they are ahead of me techwise and have a stronger (well more numerous) military, albeit with much worse command. They scare me....

Why on Earth (sorry Arova Oriana) would they want to become my vassal? Also can you vassalise other majors? I have never run a Foreign Office long enough to know. My first game that got this far I was totally isolated from majors and just conquered the five or six majors in reach until I got bored.

Though we are starting to wander away from logistics discussions. I will rework the imgur blog into a full AAR (going through saves to get the chronology and screens down now). Should be done in time for a late morning breakfast on a cloudy Saturday morning here in the UK. You will either find it in the AARs section or the Emergent Narratives thread (as it will likely only cover this war) or both in a few hours. We can discuss details of my game situation that do not pertain to logistics and questions regarding how the system should be implemented, tweaked, overhauled or left well alone there.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 6:16:04 AM   
liq3

 

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All this talk of truck station efficiency is interesting to me. 100 truck AP (TAP) goes 10 dirt roads before losing efficiency. You can boost that another 5 hexes with a supply base. My understanding is the LPs scale linearly from TAP to double TAP, and the supply base bonus doesn't help. So you're getting a small amount of LPs even at range 24. At 190/100 and 50/50 it should be 10%. This means with 1000 supply going down that route, you should be able to build another truck station in one turn (100 metal, I don't think workers use LP, and IP don't). Once it's setup, you can stop sending 1000 points down that way, since the new truck station is going to send it's own LP to meet half way.

So, a truck station every 8 range seems really excessive to me. You could also get even further with sealed roads. Rail also only costs 2 RAP, so it can go 5x as far.

I hadn't actually looked at rail lines, and now that I'm reading the rules for them they're very interesting. Even 10% LP when you don't have a complete station is plenty to get scouting parties or a small army going 50 hexes away from your city, to keep building more rail and build a new city down the line. RAP work the same as TAP too, so there's not much stopping going like 75 hexes long, though it'll take 5 turns to build the rail station with only 50 RPs at the end.

Also, you'd probably want it in a separate zone. A production asset 24 (or 50) hexes away from the city is going to cause some admin strain.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 6:20:10 AM   
Cornuthaum

 

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the problem for me is less logistics in general, but worker-efficiency; I find myself ridiculosuly starved for workers at all times and truck logistics are basically the worst consumers once you move away from farms into hydroponics. I've been experimenting with rail but even rail station II or III everywhere isn't enough, since you still need truck stations to push LP out from the railstations/railheads

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 6:33:40 AM   
Laiders

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: liq3

All this talk of truck station efficiency is interesting to me. 100 truck AP (TAP) goes 10 dirt roads before losing efficiency. You can boost that another 5 hexes with a supply base. My understanding is the LPs scale linearly from TAP to double TAP, and the supply base bonus doesn't help. So you're getting a small amount of LPs even at range 24. At 190/100 and 50/50 it should be 10%. This means with 1000 supply going down that route, you should be able to build another truck station in one turn (100 metal, I don't think workers use LP, and IP don't). Once it's setup, you can stop sending 1000 points down that way, since the new truck station is going to send it's own LP to meet half way.

So, a truck station every 8 range seems really excessive to me. You could also get even further with sealed roads. Rail also only costs 2 RAP, so it can go 5x as far.

I hadn't actually looked at rail lines, and now that I'm reading the rules for them they're very interesting. Even 10% LP when you don't have a complete station is plenty to get scouting parties or a small army going 50 hexes away from your city, to keep building more rail and build a new city down the line. RAP work the same as TAP too, so there's not much stopping going like 75 hexes long, though it'll take 5 turns to build the rail station with only 50 RPs at the end.

Also, you'd probably want it in a separate zone. A production asset 24 (or 50) hexes away from the city is going to cause some admin strain.


This would concur directly with my own practical experiences. Both my substantial Siwa games have required organising long-distance logistics from a large but fixed LP base in my capital. It is pretty trivial to do really, though it does require some annoying traffic light fiddling. A truck station in every populated zone is a good rule of thumb for redundancy but it is not strictly necessary and it is wasteful of resources and workers. You can easily push supply a very, very long way if you want to using one or two L2 truck stations and well set up sealed roads.

Cornuthaum, I'm feeling worker pinch too now and will probably start trying to aggressively optimise for worker efficiency. I guess farms are less efficient than hydro for workers, though hydroponics are much less pretty, so I could start there.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 6:44:39 AM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders


quote:

ORIGINAL: liq3

All this talk of truck station efficiency is interesting to me. 100 truck AP (TAP) goes 10 dirt roads before losing efficiency. You can boost that another 5 hexes with a supply base. My understanding is the LPs scale linearly from TAP to double TAP, and the supply base bonus doesn't help. So you're getting a small amount of LPs even at range 24. At 190/100 and 50/50 it should be 10%. This means with 1000 supply going down that route, you should be able to build another truck station in one turn (100 metal, I don't think workers use LP, and IP don't). Once it's setup, you can stop sending 1000 points down that way, since the new truck station is going to send it's own LP to meet half way.

So, a truck station every 8 range seems really excessive to me. You could also get even further with sealed roads. Rail also only costs 2 RAP, so it can go 5x as far.

I hadn't actually looked at rail lines, and now that I'm reading the rules for them they're very interesting. Even 10% LP when you don't have a complete station is plenty to get scouting parties or a small army going 50 hexes away from your city, to keep building more rail and build a new city down the line. RAP work the same as TAP too, so there's not much stopping going like 75 hexes long, though it'll take 5 turns to build the rail station with only 50 RPs at the end.

Also, you'd probably want it in a separate zone. A production asset 24 (or 50) hexes away from the city is going to cause some admin strain.


This would concur directly with my own practical experiences. Both my substantial Siwa games have required organising long-distance logistics from a large but fixed LP base in my capital. It is pretty trivial to do really, though it does require some annoying traffic light fiddling. A truck station in every populated zone is a good rule of thumb for redundancy but it is not strictly necessary and it is wasteful of resources and workers. You can easily push supply a very, very long way if you want to using one or two L2 truck stations and well set up sealed roads.

Cornuthaum, I'm feeling worker pinch too now and will probably start trying to aggressively optimise for worker efficiency. I guess farms are less efficient than hydro for workers, though hydroponics are much less pretty, so I could start there.

quote:

Cornuthaum, I'm feeling worker pinch too now and will probably start trying to aggressively optimise for worker efficiency. I guess farms are less efficient than hydro for workers, though hydroponics are much less pretty, so I could start there.


Hydroponics with the relevant techs (mass food pool and hydroponic robotization) are the most food/worker efficient thing in the game by a wild margin and one of the few buildings i will happily build up as high as possible. would highly recommend.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 10:34:20 AM   
GodwinW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: liq3

All this talk of truck station efficiency is interesting to me. 100 truck AP (TAP) goes 10 dirt roads before losing efficiency. You can boost that another 5 hexes with a supply base. My understanding is the LPs scale linearly from TAP to double TAP, and the supply base bonus doesn't help. So you're getting a small amount of LPs even at range 24. At 190/100 and 50/50 it should be 10%. This means with 1000 supply going down that route, you should be able to build another truck station in one turn (100 metal, I don't think workers use LP, and IP don't). Once it's setup, you can stop sending 1000 points down that way, since the new truck station is going to send it's own LP to meet half way.

So, a truck station every 8 range seems really excessive to me. You could also get even further with sealed roads. Rail also only costs 2 RAP, so it can go 5x as far.

I hadn't actually looked at rail lines, and now that I'm reading the rules for them they're very interesting. Even 10% LP when you don't have a complete station is plenty to get scouting parties or a small army going 50 hexes away from your city, to keep building more rail and build a new city down the line. RAP work the same as TAP too, so there's not much stopping going like 75 hexes long, though it'll take 5 turns to build the rail station with only 50 RPs at the end.

Also, you'd probably want it in a separate zone. A production asset 24 (or 50) hexes away from the city is going to cause some admin strain.


You can upgrade Supply Stations, so you can get 20 hexes base distance (10 + 10) on dirt roads. Make it a sealed road if you run into issues and the trucks go 40 hexes distance. That's some serious length imo.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 11:38:01 AM   
liq3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

You can upgrade Supply Stations, so you can get 20 hexes base distance (10 + 10) on dirt roads. Make it a sealed road if you run into issues and the trucks go 40 hexes distance. That's some serious length imo.


Oh wow, I missed that truck AP is 5 on sealed roads. I thought it was 8 (the value for wheeled). That's pretty amazing.

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 12:40:34 PM   
Jdane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders

The unit card numbers for the militia are 12 and 4 respectively but I don't know if that really equates to 1,600 men requiring supply.


I was passing by and saw this. According to Vic (source):
quote:

The value on each counter is the total of the subunits modified for readiness of all units in the hex.

Granted, he was talking about the values seen in the History recap, but I think we can deduce from this that your assumption was generally correct.



< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/13/2020 12:42:14 PM >

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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 1:06:32 PM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders
Umm... Herzkau are a full-blown major on parity with me.


Sorry, missed that detail. Never had a frienemy major.



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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 1:10:35 PM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum

the problem for me is less logistics in general, but worker-efficiency; I find myself ridiculosuly starved for workers at all times and truck logistics are basically the worst consumers once you move away from farms into hydroponics. I've been experimenting with rail but even rail station II or III everywhere isn't enough, since you still need truck stations to push LP out from the railstations/railheads


True.

I use colonists to covert to workers in any city where suddenly I have shortages (e.g. build large projects, etc.)

I've come to embrace the suck when it comes to all the downsides of unhappiness and migrations (to and from free folk). I just build with inefficiency in the scope.


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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 1:12:25 PM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jdane

I was passing by and saw this. According to Vic (source):
quote:

The value on each counter is the total of the subunits modified for readiness of all units in the hex.

Granted, he was talking about the values seen in the History recap, but I think we can deduce from this that your assumption was generally correct.


great catch! that was news to me.


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RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 3:59:07 PM   
hellcat23

 

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I'm on my 6th game and apart from the first 2 where I really had to struggle with the logistics supply issue I have got it down to some simple rules of thumb that really make it so I don't even have to check the bottleneck and other overlays very often. I hope these tips help.

Nationalise any Truck hubs as soon as you can afford it so as to take control.

Put down sealed roads everywhere when you can. This is game changer. This includes to production sites even if they are a few hexes.

Only build roads where you have to, but do build roads to the front line.

Upgrade your Truck stations to level 2 in each city zone. Only go level 3 if problems develop.

Build rail between all your cities and stations in each city. Only upgrade the stations when you need to.

If you build rail to a non city then build a rail head at the end of the line. (Say to the front line) - But I don't do this very much.

Black and red lines on bottlenecks can be fixed with upgrading city truck or rail stations, it's rarely needed to put truck stops elsewhere but you definitely don't need to spam non city truck stops or supply bases.

Keep an eye on units going yellow or red - they are either too far from supply (extend roads or move units back into supply)

Close of roads with no activity with Traffic signs - but I don't use this much.

Make sure you have enough food, ammo and oil.

Doing this I've been having SHQ first 3 supply settings 100% in the green.

< Message edited by hellcat23 -- 6/13/2020 4:01:32 PM >

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 236
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:03:41 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat23

I'm on my 6th game and apart from the first 2 where I really had to struggle with the logistics supply issue I have got it down to some simple rules of thumb that really make it so I don't even have to check the bottleneck and other overlays very often. I hope these tips help.

Nationalise any Truck hubs as soon as you can afford it so as to take control.

Put down sealed roads everywhere when you can. This is game changer. This includes to production sites even if they are a few hexes.

Only build roads where you have to, but do build roads to the front line.

Upgrade your Truck stations to level 2 in each city zone. Only go level 3 if problems develop.

Build rail between all your cities and stations in each city. Only upgrade the stations when you need to.

If you build rail to a non city then build a rail head at the end of the line. (Say to the front line) - But I don't do this very much.

Black and red lines on bottlenecks can be fixed with upgrading city truck or rail stations, it's rarely needed to put truck stops elsewhere but you definitely don't need to spam non city truck stops or supply bases.

Keep an eye on units going yellow or red - they are either too far from supply (extend roads or move units back into supply)

Close of roads with no activity with Traffic signs - but I don't use this much.

Doing this I've been having SHQ first 3 supply settings 100% in the green.



Hey! Those are my rules for LIS (love that old name) and pretty much my results as well.

I'm quite happy with LIS just the way it works now; although I do hope for "delete road"...

Well Done!

_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 237
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:12:10 PM   
Jdane


Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline
This list of tips is excellent, and I suggest that you post it in the War Room with an explicit title where it would be of much use to people.
Here in this massive thread filled with some very technical discussions, it runs the risk of being missed out on, which would be a shame.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/13/2020 4:21:55 PM >

(in reply to willgamer)
Post #: 238
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:44:18 PM   
liq3

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline
Hellcat, I have to disagree with a lot of your tips. They mostly encourage mindlessly building things you might need, instead of understanding how the system works and playing more optimally.

10 sealed roads are an extra 300 IP. That's a lot imo.

A level 2 vs level 1 truck stop is 2600 extra workers, which even for me at turn 67 when I have 70,000 is a pretty decent amount. That's like 4 QoL buildings.

Rail isn't more efficient at LP than trucks are, they're just the best at range. I'm not likely to build a train track less than 30 long (even 30 you can manage with trucks and some sealed roads), and that's 900 metal and IP already.


(in reply to Jdane)
Post #: 239
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/13/2020 4:50:56 PM   
hellcat23

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline
liq3 ok fair enough I'm just saying it works for me. I don't personally want to get bogged down every turn into making minor tweaks here and there, especially if there's a war on. I'm just saying this seems to work with minimal micro. Plus it feels less inefficient than spamming out truck stops every 6 to 8 hexes which I've read about alot.

Like I say I only upgrade when I have to so I do have one eye on keeping the costs down. I usually have more colonists than I would ever need with only the lowest sign up bonus and it set to 100 (the minimum). I can feed them in wherever the workers are short.

(in reply to liq3)
Post #: 240
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