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RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please

 
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RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 9:28:47 PM   
Naselus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		Seriously, reload about 6 turns back.

Deploy all those colonists and turn off any colonist recruitment.

Then upgrade everyone to grunt 2's and when that's done, set the entire Guards line to obsolete - they're simply too terrible. No good is going to come from continuing to develop them.

The 'field testing' stat is misleading - 60% is a perfectly good time to start deving up the new variant. For example, your Abram light tank is 67% tested, but is already at 115 points of field test. A new version at this point will already be much better, where as waiting to improve at this time will take a long time to get each new %. Generally, 50% field testing is a perfectly good time to do a new version.


As top unlimited resource - yes and no. You can have unlimited time, but not unlimited capacity - most of the 'endless' resources are city-only. Your zone management is not bad (Trofaria could do with splitting into 2 but otherwise good) and should be able to hit city*250 metal and fuel production easily, but beyond that will need external sources.

I don't think you necessarily need a new playthrough - drop back ten turns, dump the awful gas Guards for Grunts and then hunker down, and this will probably be well placed to hold the line. Read up on unit design a bit (it's insanely complex, but basically you want base, structure, engine, weapon and armour design >100 for a model you want to dev up) and you should be able to hold this. The enemey army is not hugely bigger then yours and you can probably outmatch them defensively with good pop use.

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 31
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 9:37:19 PM   
Vhalor


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/11/2020
Status: offline 		Full list indeed!

Especially with artillery going with the highest available gun is even more important than in general, because it gives the artillery more attacks per combat round. For example in that game of yours, the AI's artillery fires 6! times per round, while yours only fires 2 times.

Just keep military research and model design a higher priority in the future and you should see a lot of improvement. You should still be able to turn the tide on this planet, get some strong tanks with polymer armor, combine that with some powerful artillery and use those countless stratagems of yours. You have so many of them it's quite crazy. A lot of those BPs could have gone into your military might directly.

Of course, you could also go with another planet, you should do quite well there when keeping all the new knowledge in mind.


(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 32
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 9:37:26 PM   
hellcat23

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline 		Yeah I might do that. I have all the turns back to the start. My other issue was I didn't get any kind of power generation until amost Turn 80. I didn't know at the time about how to ensure you complete the first basic tech tree before it cascades so I missed the boat and I got solar only as the war started. How things could have been if those 80 turns had some kind of energy generation.

For sure it doesn't excuse my deficencies in model design and but does explain how this playthrough staggered along from the start.

I think I will put my new found knowledge to use in a new game but will keep this and maybe come back to it when more confident. Those gaps were great defensively though, with the right troops...

Thank you guys so much!

(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 33
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 9:50:06 PM   
Naselus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		No worries, I think we all went through about 7 occasions of 'oh ****, I totally misunderstood THIS for those first 70 turns' moments...

For me, most recently it was zones, at about turn 100 I had 3 zones and found all of them at -60% production from admin strain. I was spending a fortune on buying up metal/fuel... I now have 13 and have ridiculous surpluses on everything without buying a single extra asset. But I had similar Damascus moments with logistics, models and even character relations...

You were very unlucky here tho, a lot of those model roles are seriously sub-par.

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 34
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 10:01:29 PM   
Vhalor


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/11/2020
Status: offline 		This game has quite a bit of complexity, so it's really a process to understand the main parts and there's always areas one can learn more about. Anyway, it was actually quite interesting to check out your planet and good luck on your next endeavor!

(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 35
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 10:04:00 PM   
hellcat23

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline 		With the power only just coming on it was full on panic mode to plug the gaps and bring the zones out of the stone age before they poured through.

I know what you mean though it seems every playthrough yields much more practical knowledge to deploy. Another great aspect of this game really.

(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 36
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 10:22:12 PM   
Naselus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		Honestly, I'm super confident this is salvageable. Your fundamentals are really strong here - good industrial base, good raw material income, good cash flow etc. The infantry you're using are extremely poor, but replaced with grunts that 12k vs 500 will flip easily to even deaths, and with 20-30 turns of field testing you'll have the advantage.

The game is like basically all the Paradox major IPs rolled into one, and you can't ignore ANY of them. You've under-rated the Hearts of Iron bit and now you're getting punished :D I ignored the character relations part first time and my whole empire got nicked by disgruntled council directors...

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 37
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 10:28:53 PM   
Jdane


Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Naselus

The game is like basically all the Paradox major IPs rolled into one, and you can't ignore ANY of them. You've under-rated the Hearts of Iron bit and now you're getting punished :D I ignored the character relations part first time and my whole empire got nicked by disgruntled council directors...


Matrix/Slitherine should use this quote as a selling point.

(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 38
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/13/2020 10:30:27 PM   
Naselus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		It IS tho :D Victoria 2's world market stuff is going on behind the scenes and the game barely bothers to mention it :D

(in reply to Jdane)
Post #: 39
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 9:13:55 AM   
liq3

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Naselus
I get the feeling you don't really understand the model design stuff? Cos a very large portion of your army is really, really bad designs. The Guard probably should've been retired immediately when you saw it had a Base Design value of 78; the range is 70-130 so these guys are barely useful as police, let alone front line troopers.


Where are you seeing the 78? I'm looking at his Guards model and it's base design is 90 (and 139 for Guards 3).

Regardless, a low base design value isn't the end of the world. It can be maxed out through field testing and iterating on the design. A low Structural design though is bad, since it never changes. Since he's only got 99 and 104 for his two infantry lines, I'd be rerolling a new one as time permits and field testing it if it rolls higher SD.

(in reply to Naselus)
Post #: 40
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 12:06:53 PM   
Naselus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		Meh, think I had one of the other unit design logs open at the time I wrote that and just copied what I was reading instead of what I meant :D

Overall tho, the number of really bad design rolls he's got for many key unit types is surprising, there was some really bad luck here. All the design rolls on the Guard 3 are all worse than the Guard 2, so it just inherited all the stats without improving any. And the Grunt is pretty bad too.

In fact, there's so many designs with <85 rolls on so many stats, I wonder if his model design guy is having a negative influence on the rolls or something.

(in reply to liq3)
Post #: 41
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 12:25:04 PM   
WeaverofBrokenThreads

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		I didn't look at the save, but I can give you a few tips how to survive a Major on any difficulty level, in the early and the midgame.

First of all, the most important thing you have to do is make sure that you have a unit that can fulfill an early offensive role. Because the AI does not care about mountains, in terms of movement penalties, or seemingly any sort of movement penalties, he will zone places and entrench where you really don't want him to do that. And you are not gonna send him packing with infantry. You'll need light tanks, biker boyz or recon buggies.

In the early game, expanding aggressively more often than not gets you nothing but a massive frontline that you cannot defend. On regular difficulty this is manageable, but in general, you should get into the habit of doing the things you can actually support. I strongly suggest turtling early. Spies are better than you at revealing hex perks and prospecting will have to happen later. Use the early game to build up your forces and to plan where you want to expand.

Don't use infantry in offensive roles and find places where you can entrench a lot. Using the geography to your advantage only works in this regard, as the AI does not care about terrain when navigating. He will hop over your mountains, behind your troops and go like 'Oh, you were using this road for supplies? Oops.'

Supplies: If you don't have them, your units will die. Easily. Especially on extreme difficulty. I can't tell you how many times I forgot to workshop ammunition, and lost thousands of troops in a single turn. It's not that they didn't fire back, it's just that their combat values were so low because of the penalties.

If you don't surround the enemy counters, there is no point fighting them. The way the AI reinforces troops, and the way you do it, are completely different. The only good AI counter is a dead counter, and that means that you can not allow him to escape.

Suicide your troops often if you can afford it. This will give xp to your SHQ commander, which can eventually become +100% to combat stats.

Another good habit to have is to raise troops with OHQs. Postures are absolutely vital on extreme difficulty, but on regular games, fighting without postures is just wasting manpower and not using your troops to their full potential.

I mean, we are well in the territory of advanced tips; but if you just stick to the first two or three tips, you should have absolutely no problems with Major regime bum rushes. The only thing I would probably add to that is that the AI loves to go around you and take nonsense positions inside your territory. You can safely ignore those, because they will go back to their own lines at some point. Or maybe they won't. The lesson to learn here is to never leave gaps in your front line. NO GAPS. I cannot stress this enough. Yes, even the impassable mountain 6+ hexes away from the AI forces. He will go over them. In one turn. And he will sit in front of your capital. No gaps. Nowhere. Let it play out half a dozen turns, and then adjust the width of your front line when you learn where the AI is willing to path and where he isn't.

I hope this helps.

(in reply to liq3)
Post #: 42
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 12:32:48 PM   
hellcat23

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline 		Just a quick update - I am running a new game right now to put what I've learned here into practice especially with model design. Everything feels alot better now I must say.

I've also just started paying closer attention to my (corrupt and thieving) leaders as well so when I go back to this save (some turns back I think) I will try and rejig things and see if I can shake a win out of it. At least a win at those gaps.

Hey WeaverofBrokenThreads I heard you play on Extreme, thanks for these tips.

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)
Post #: 43
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 12:48:25 PM   
WeaverofBrokenThreads

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Yeah, I play on extreme exclusively, but I am certain those tips apply to regular and beginner games too. I have more, extreme-focused, tips, but that is probably just overkill for regular games. Going model council first is absolutely necessary on extreme difficulty. I cannot stress how important having light tanks is on difficulties other than regular. But on regular, even militia can just overrun majors.

I suppose a few offensive tips I could share is: Motorized motorized motorized. Infantry and artillery on foot is useless. Do not build them. Unless you absolutely have to. If you literally have no choice, build them. And then scrap them when you no longer need them. Also scrap GR units. You will get a ton of high tech parts which you can sell. The units are powerful, but they don't really offer much in terms of warfare. GR MGs can be extremely useful on defense, but not by themselves. If you are gonna put a whole unit of MGs, next to the GR MGs, then you may as well scrap them.

More often than not, the Major AI will make a stupid move, you will break through and drive right up to his city and take it. This is why you want motorized/mechanized forces. The sooner you end the war, the sooner you can go back to exploring and managing.

Another more subtle hint is to build bureaucratic offices whenever you can. They're literally the most important building in your empire and will cost you a ton of manpower. In turn, they will allow you to upgrade your troops in fewer turns and to research tech that will obliterate the AI.

Another, even more subtle tip, is profiles. Fist profile gives you extreme combat bonuses; things like Warlust and Esprit de Corps are relatively easy to get if you focus on fist, giving you +50% casualty tolerance and +25% combat stats respectively. If you are having trouble with the AI, starting a game with that profile focused might be a good way to learn mechanics and how the AI behaves.

I like to go Autocracy, Government and Fist on extreme difficulty, as this gives me a good mix of combat and beaurocracy stats, as well as cards I can play against the AI in the midgame, like Call to Power; Autocracy also gives special ops subunits and lots of other useful stuff. Alternatively, Meritocracy is a very good profile because it gives you access to champions from the Martial Arts profile bonus, and they allow you to turn 50% of hits into a kill. Extremely powerful. It also gives you access to recruit Talent stratagem, which gives you very good leaders.

The most subtle and most important tip is probably to recognize when you need an interior council. If you are starting to do well, and you have bureaucratic offices at level 2 or 3, you need an interior council, otherwise you will end up with a lot of councils and government positions unstaffed. You need leaders.

All right, that's it for me. I think you are more than well equipped now to play through a whole game of regular and stomp the AI.

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 44
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 12:58:05 PM   
diamondspider

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 5/15/2020
Status: offline 		My tips that are keeping me in 1st place on normal on turn 50 this time around:
1) Get more metal, which is done easily if you have ruins you can put recycling on. Otherwise you econ leader can prospect for you. If you have neither, you will have a hard game.
2) Get more IP. Best done by private investors investing in light industry if your econ is high. Otherwise you'll have to build factories.
3) This is important: once you have the above under control, upgrade your BPs with Government buildings. It is easy to forget to do this. Also, don't grab every org too quickly. I still don't even have my secret service or foreign affairs and am not missing them yet. The reason is that your BP is split among what you have. I only recently added in Applied Science. The important things to get early are econ, military research, and interior (because I put a ton into HR so I can get lots of good staff). Prospecting and military research with loads of BP going into them is critical until you get metal under control, then military research is still critical. Also important to add in Model Council fairly early, but not too early.
4) Another important thing to do is make lots of troops early. Some troops are quite cheap, and I focus on mechanized infantry , buggies, motorcycles (which I had by something like turn 15 and I make a lot of them with upgraded rifles and armor.. the recon and mobility are very nice for the money). Then I save up for a motorized infantry OHQ. With these, I took out the nearest minor town by turn 20 while holding 2 other lines against invaders. You can imagine that is a lot of troops.
5) On logistics, it is absolutely critical to privatize and upgrade the trucks in your main city early. I have only built one additional truck station so far, because the SHQ can move a lot with just my level III truck depot.

Of course there are a millions small things, but those are the big ones that took me from having games like yours to holding 1st place fairly easily. I have taken 2 minor cities now around turn 50 and they are both entirely happy (with my many BPs I get from all 3 cities I get lots of zoos, commercial zones, and such to boost them into happiness. Of course you must keep a pile of military on the city after taking it for a while. Two majors are now pushing at me, but one likes me a lot via diplo and the other blackmailed me, I paid, and am preparing to take him out now. My troops are somewhat better than his, but I just made my second OHQ of mechanized infantry with 2 tanks each, which should do well against his mix.


< Message edited by diamondspider -- 6/14/2020 1:00:38 PM >

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 45
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 1:03:52 PM   
Jdane


Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tips everyone. With your input, this discussion thread has turned into a trove of good information.

(This is a very secondary point but, diamondspider, I thought zoos and commercial zones Stratagems were gifts from happy factions, unlocked after acquiring specific regime feats, and not the result of investing BPs in Stratagem generation? At least the manual leads me to believe so. Anyhow, it's not that important.)

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/14/2020 1:10:41 PM >

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)
Post #: 46
RE: Midgame Major Power Rush - Advice Please - 6/14/2020 1:17:52 PM   
diamondspider

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 5/15/2020
Status: offline 		That's great that you and I wrote our tips at the same time and they are so similar. I'm glad to see that these things will work on extreme also :) Only difference is I go commerce, meritocracy, mind. All about cheap IP, good leaders, and research.

Also, one more tip I forgot, Capability is very important long term on leaders. All of mine are now III or IV (with IV in my military research). Don't get fooled by a Capability I with a somewhat higher key stat. The experience bonus is huge.

< Message edited by diamondspider -- 6/14/2020 1:23:37 PM >

(in reply to WeaverofBrokenThreads)
Post #: 47
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