how accurate is suitbility?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

how accurate is suitbility?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> how accurate is suitbility?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 6:54:58 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

When you are first appointing a leader, how accurate should we assume suitability to be? I understand that sometimes someone with lower initial stats can be a better long term candidate, but often i can tell why one is better than another...

Post #: 1

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 7:12:20 PM

Jdane

Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline

How accurate, I don't know. As far as I know there's not much information on how suitability is calculated.

I don't know how familiar you are with chapter 4 of the manual (which is a tutorial of sorts) but the section about leaders gives some useful pointers to at least get started.

Personally, I like to check in the manual the Skills required by the various tasks of the Council to staff, and look how the candidates fare from this point of view.
Bearing in mind that Skills in the same category and the relevant attribute (such as Intelligence, I don't have the exact term handy) can provide a bonus to Skill rolls, so I take that in consideration too.
In the end, I look at the Capability Level to assess if the leader is destined to improve quicker rather than slower or not, and then I have some idea of suitable they are for the job.

For instance, my Models Design Council director was a merchant and had no Technician skill which would have been ideal, but he had good Improvisation and above all Intelligence, and his Cap. Lvl is III. He was much better than the alternative. It's only been about half a dozen turns or so, but he has already raised his Technician skill to 6 by spending XP on it and provides +11% skill bonus to his council's tasks performance (and about +50% more but that's because he likes me so very much).

Supreme Command and governorships are a tad more complicated because they require Skills from different categories moreso than other positions do, and I must say the Skills needed do not seem to me very well consolidated in one place to check in the manual, but the principle remains.

But at the end of the day, I often find out that I have to make a sub-optimal choice because of politics.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/16/2020 7:20:07 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 2

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 7:19:16 PM

Laiders

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Suitability checks characters' skill ratings: technical, command and interpersonal. Skill ratings are simply the highest skill value a char has in a given field. However, suitability is smart enough to check all applicable skills to the role under consideration and discount, though not entirely, related but irrelevant skills. E.g. an operational commander needs operational command skill plus the various unique military skills, such as the various tactics skills, to be effective. A very high covert ops or high command skill character will be rated more suitable than a rank amateur but not rated anywhere near as highly as a half-way decent operational commander. The manual describes it as a rough guide and this is largely accurate. It takes no real account of growth potential for example. A 0 skill CAP IV high stats junior aged 16 will be rated much lower than a 60 year old with lower stats CAP II and modest skill. However, the junior may well be the better pick.

Obviously it can take no account of the political dimension to such a decision either. However, you probably don't need to worry about that too much. Really depends how peeved your factions as a whole are and whether you have sacked people with seniority.

^ Jdane has given a brief but effective rundown of some of the real considerations at play when you are ready to use suitability as the beginning of a decision making process. This is a more advanced skill that can be developed, as he says, by playing with the manual and actually checking what skills do and what they are relevant for. You can then make more informed choices as to how to allocate a series of sub-optimal candidates say to maximise value.

This game can be played on many levels. Suitability will be ok for less confidant or newer players but the more you become comfortable with the game and using the manual during play (seriously I never play without it open) the more you start to disregard it.

< Message edited by Laiders -- 6/16/2020 7:22:55 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 3

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 7:39:25 PM

Falke

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline

Suitability is based on the current skills of the person. It is therefore a measure for the best short term candidate.
Generally check Int stat and the capabilty rating, the highest is the best long term candidate. They will quickly learn the job and soon exceed one with lower ratings

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 4

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 8:10:49 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

Thanks guys, havent gotten to chapter 4 of manual yet

(in reply to Falke)

Post #: 5

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 9:06:06 PM

Laiders

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

No no no. Int only has a bearing on effectiveness using Int skills. Int chars are the best at technical councils and arguably governors. War chars are the best commanders by a long shot, Int makes basically no difference here, and Cha characters are your best spies and diplomats.

Every type of character has a role they can play.

(in reply to Falke)

Post #: 6

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 9:24:01 PM

Axeking

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/6/2007
Status: offline

Part of the issue with Suitability - what is the range?

Is 4 a good value? 24? 80? With no details on how it is calculated, nor what the range of values is, it becomes essentially meaningless...

I've seen values between 0 and low 20s - does this mean the most suitable candidates are only 20% suitable?

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 7

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 9:50:35 PM

Laiders

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Well it goes up to 100 so 20 is not great. However, 20 is more than competent in the early game.

(in reply to Axeking)

Post #: 8

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 10:20:40 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

How it works precisely is a mystery. I think it is the average of all skills for a job. But we do not know wich ones that are reliably. The Leader screen will show "recently used" skills, but some skills might be used rarely.

I got a Model Designer Suitability 42, according to the handbook model design use only Technician (twice) and the skill is 42. So it is at least "in the right ballpark".

You have the choice to either go for:
- good initial skills (High Suiteability)
- good potential for growth (High Capacity, high relevant stat)
you will rarely get both.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/16/2020 10:22:00 PM >

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 9

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 11:30:09 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders

Every type of character has a role they can play.

Except, of course, those with no skills at all...

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 10

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/16/2020 11:31:35 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laiders

Well it goes up to 100 so 20 is not great. However, 20 is more than competent in the early game.

I had someone with 113 once__every role was a critical success!

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 11

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/17/2020 1:47:05 AM

diamondspider

Posts: 141
Joined: 5/15/2020
Status: offline

Not accurate. Look at the key trait score and capability (green for tech, blue combat, and yellow governor)... as well as compatibility with your planned traits e.g. authoritarian, etc.. These tend to be much more important than what suitability is looking at.

The only thing less accurate in this game than the suitability score is the estimated combat odds.

< Message edited by diamondspider -- 6/17/2020 1:48:14 AM >

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 12

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/17/2020 9:24:49 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: diamondspider

Not accurate. Look at the key trait score and capability (green for tech, blue combat, and yellow governor)... as well as compatibility with your planned traits e.g. authoritarian, etc.. These tend to be much more important than what suitability is looking at.

The only thing less accurate in this game than the suitability score is the estimated combat odds.

It seem a accurate assesment of how good they would be at the job with their current skills.
It even seems to acount for Improvisation skill.

Those things you mentioned? All longterm/non suitability considerations

(in reply to diamondspider)

Post #: 13

RE: how accurate is suitbility? - 6/17/2020 10:19:12 AM

Laiders

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

I agree with zgrssd here. Suitability will generally find the best immediate candidate for the job. Sometimes I disagree with its assessments when assessing very unsuitable candidates. I've had it rate candidates with 0 Command rating as better than candidates with a CMD rating for OHQ roles. However, I did not dig in to it too much as I knew I was going to recruit a military leader specifically. It could be that the higher rated candidate had a better WAR stat and a few independent WAR skills that would not actually give CMD rating. Else that candidate may have had much better relevant CHA skills, like leadership.

On the whole, it's assessments are accurate. I generally disregard when I need to factor in some other long-term or political priority not because I feel it is inaccurate in its assessment.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 14