Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >>

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

- 7/4/2001 3:03:00 AM

Antonius

Posts: 209
Joined: 6/6/2000
From: Saint Arnoult en Yvelines FRANCE
Status: offline

Starshells and light shed by fires - just like we had in ASL :) - is what I miss most in night fighting

_____________________________

Wargamo, ergo sum

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 31

- 7/4/2001 3:10:00 AM

Antonius

Posts: 209
Joined: 6/6/2000
From: Saint Arnoult en Yvelines FRANCE
Status: offline

Forgot to say how impressed and glad I am at the news of getting 6.0

_____________________________

Wargamo, ergo sum

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 32

- 7/4/2001 3:11:00 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Hi David ! I hope, I got that right: team MGs effective range up to 500m significant drop of casualties from 500 to 750m 750m+ no (or almost no) casualties, suppression only :confused: In case you want to make this a "universal set of range bands for team MGs", I want to encourage you, to check your references on WWII MGs once more. I do believe, that these ranges are right for a lot of MGs, but I also do know, that they're not for at least a few types. I can only speak for the MG42 Lafette (tripod), cause I was an instructor for the MG3 (same weapon - only important difference: MG42 got HIGHER rate of fire). I trained recruits to open fire at moving infantry at 800m. At 800m you still have to use the traverse and elevation to get enough spread, to hit a squad of ten men with a distance of 1-3m to each other. At a range of 1000-1200m, you don't have to use t&e anymore, cause the natural spread of the weapon is enough, to cover an advancing squad (keep in mind the weapon is equiped with optics and illumination rounds - you can see the bullets up to 1200m in daylight) This range is not the maximum range, the weapon can fire ! I know the meaning of effective range very well and I'm familiar with adjusting real life ranges to SPWAW effective ones ! 1200m is about the maximum range of a MG42 Lafette, where you can expect significant numbers of casualties. Everything that exceeds this, goes into the category of suppression only. I do not post things like this easily, but I believe, it will be a thread in the future, in case you're bringing out a not adjustable set of universal team MG ranges. I simply believe, it is wrong. I cannot speak for other types of WWII MGs, cause the MG42 is the only one I know from my own experience, but this problem goes to all MGs with similar caracteristics, of course.

_____________________________

[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 33

- 7/4/2001 3:16:00 AM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Leo: Hi David ! I hope, I got that right: team MGs effective range up to 500m significant drop of casualties from 500 to 750m 750m+ no (or almost no) casualties, suppression only :confused: In case you want to make this a "universal set of range bands for team MGs", I want to encourage you, to check your references on WWII MGs once more. I do believe, that these ranges are right for a lot of MGs, but I also do know, that they're not for at least a few types. I can only speak for the MG42 Lafette (tripod), cause I was an instructor for the MG3 (same weapon - only important difference: MG42 got HIGHER rate of fire). I trained recruits to open fire at moving infantry at 800m. At 800m you still have to use the traverse and elevation to get enough spread, to hit a squad of ten men with a distance of 1-3m to each other. At a range of 1000-1200m, you don't have to use t&e anymore, cause the natural spread of the weapon is enough, to cover an advancing squad (keep in mind the weapon is equiped with optics and illumination rounds - you can see the bullets up to 1200m in daylight) This range is not the maximum range, the weapon can fire ! I know the meaning of effective range very well and I'm familiar with adjusting real life ranges to SPWAW effective ones ! 1200m is about the maximum range of a MG42 Lafette, where you can expect significant numbers of casualties. Everything that exceeds this, goes into the category of suppression only. I do not post things like this easily, but I believe, it will be a thread in the future, in case you're bringing out a not adjustable set of universal team MG ranges. I simply believe, it is wrong. I cannot speak for other types of WWII MGs, cause the MG42 is the only one I know from my own experience, but this problem goes to all MGs with similar caracteristics, of course.

Leo it has already been a thread. The M2HB has better range than any other mg. We'll have to wait and see. regards, sven

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 34

- 7/4/2001 3:25:00 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

quote:

We'll have to wait and see.

Hmmm...what do you want to say with this... You think, I'm right, but you don't want to say it loud :confused: I think it's bets to tell the guys now, before they post v6.0, not after... :rolleyes:

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 35

- 7/4/2001 3:27:00 AM

krull

Posts: 513
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: USA
Status: offline

My ? is why are rifles only effective out to 200 yards. My service experince in korea and on. Most marines engage targets at 500 and under. Not to sure about other countrys and services but kinda seems very short range in a time most rifles at least in marine service trained at 500 yards at least. UNless of course you couldnt see it.

_____________________________

Krull

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 36

- 7/4/2001 3:32:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

THe ranges listed are generalities, not hard coded. The only thing hard coded is the "bonus" range for small arms kicking in at 350m (in in 10 chance) and increasing down to point blank. MGs and AA guns and the actual effects are a function of unit characteristics (hit chance for "real" hits, and volume of fire = hekill value for "extra" hits because you are throwing so much lead some of it will hit somebody out of dumb luck. So the actual range bands and effectiveness will vary based on the individual unit characteristics not hard coded range bands - they are just observations based on playtesting of observed averages. 50cals for instance are effective to longer ranges than Maxim HMG even though both are HMG and LMG 34 much more effective to a longer range than BRen, but far short of an MMG MG 34... That is what we were trying to get across. The weapons "effective range" is a matter of opinion and game play. just as it is no fun when MGs do nothing, if MGs wiped out squads at 24 hexes routinely there would not be much of a game...since troops managed to routinely close MGs to within 16-24 hexes, then there is something beyond firepower at work - spotting ability. In any case if you increase teh range and accuracy of MGs in teh OOBs the "effective range band" will move out accordingly. But wiping out squads at 16-24 hexes is a bit hard play with. Now I probebly confused you even more :eek:

_____________________________

http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 37

- 7/4/2001 3:36:00 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Thanks, Paul ! No, you didn't confuse me :D I was just shocked by these numbers David posted, that I thought they're cast in stone - I should have known better, that you guys put way more behind these ranges then I first thought :D

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 38

- 7/4/2001 3:44:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

The 200 yards represents the range in the standard combat situation of prone firer firing at prone target. You can get kills on men moving in the open much farther, but firing at a target at 500 yards, and trying to engage a dodging weaving, dropping prone human trying to stay alive is a much different task...Out much past 350 yards or so its more luck than anything else and the game reflects that - you suppres out there, but only rarely kill. In side the 350 yard range you get more opportunities for actual aimed shots - not just throwing lead down range, and the chances increase the closer you are, and that is what the "small arms bonus" is meant to represent. Why 350? Well it "feels right" and seems to be about the range I rememeber shooting in competition where you had to start monkeying with the sight dope to keep on target, or rely on Kentucky windage ;) [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

_____________________________

http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 39

- 7/4/2001 3:53:00 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

...as infantry combat now is nearly perfect :) I dare to ask about the "swamp/marsh/bog" issue again. Can these terrains be made more realistic concerning vehicle "stuck/breakdown" rate or do we need to wait for CL? _________ Harry

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 40

- 7/4/2001 4:07:00 AM

Crash_franco

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/16/2001
From: Pretoria South Africa
Status: offline

Ok I am impressed, as so many have noted in the strings: You guys are making a SUPER SIM even better....... Now one thing I have been wondering about.... With modern Artiliry it is standard to have camo-netting. As far as I know it was used in WWII as well. This is my question: Is there a "camo" function or simulation in the current SPWAW or is that something not felt necessary. Why I ask this is the American and British air units spot my arty "a mile away" even if the unit didn't fire any rounds for the whole scenario. If I could use camo netting there it would save these units for the purpose I intended them to be used as a back-up volly when my mail artiliry is being moved (to sustain the arty attack so to speak) If I am halucinating shoot me :-) [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Franco Morison ]

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 41

- 7/4/2001 4:15:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

That will have to wait too, many terrains are "clones" of each other and changes to one may have unitended consequences on the another, that and HP/wt and Ground pressure data is needed to tell how marshy is marshy for what. For now use impassible water for marsh that is "wet" and "regular" marsh represents "dry" marsh - not sticky muck. Same with swamp, mpre "boggy" maybe than Everglades or Mississippi muck... "Extra camo" is part of entrenchment - if you are entrenched in rough in particular you are VERY difficult to spt - rough with trees is the worst I think...though they may not be cumulative... This will eventually be dealt with in Combat Leader... [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

_____________________________

http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 42

- 7/4/2001 4:20:00 AM

Crash_franco

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/16/2001
From: Pretoria South Africa
Status: offline

Ok kool......... Great Sim again and thanx for finding the time to make it even better.......... :) :) :)

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 43

- 7/4/2001 4:44:00 AM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

@Paul Thanks for answering my Questions. Now I have another Idea in my mind. In another Thread we talked about coherence of spotting and killing units where I made the easy statement "If I can see it then I can kill it". Then on Monday I though about a Game called "Jagged Alliance", in this game every Soldier had to spot the enemy themselves and could then shoot on him. If I see it right everything we have to do in SPWaW is that someone no matter who spots the enemy an then everybody starts shooting on the enemy. Couldn't we deal it that way that every unit has to spot the enemy themselves and then can shoot at them? I would like to hear if the others think about it, if we should deal like JA with this? But I guess this is also not possible to make for SP, but maybe a worthy Idea for CL. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: BigDuke66 ]

_____________________________

JOIN The Blitz Wargaming Club
JOIN Napoleonic Wargame Club
JOIN American Civil War Game Club

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 44

- 7/4/2001 5:01:00 AM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by BigDuke66: @Paul Thanks for answering my Questions. Now I have another Idea in my mind. In another Thread we talked about coherence of spotting and killing units where I made the easy statement "If I can see it then I can kill it". Then on Monday I though about a Game called "Jagged Alliance", in this game every Soldier had to spot the enemy themselves and could then shot on him. If I see it right everything we have to do in SPWaW is that someone no matter who spots the enemy an then everybody starts shoting on the enemy. Couldn't we deal it that way that every unit has to spot the enemy themselves and then can shot at them. I would like to hear if the others think about it, if we should deal like JA with this? But I guess this is also not possible to make for SP, but maybe a worthy Idea for CL.

It would be realistic, however I think it also might get unrealistic if two squads beside tanks couldn't point to tank crew where some fire comes. Or two units in same hex, couldn't talk each other enough to show other squad where some firing unit is. I'm for realism, but for so long I'm atleast happy way game works. If change comes for realism in this issue I'm for it, but I do not suffer from lack of it in this respect. Because I know then game would be LOT more harder than it is now. Anyway, in funny way game actually works already bit like you wish. I sometimes forgot go through infantry units. Which means that as I plot actions for tanks, I don't see certain units until I activate some infantry unit that can see.

_____________________________

----------------------------- Sex, rags and and rock'n roll! ------------------------------

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 45

- 7/4/2001 5:24:00 AM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

Hi Guys YES you read right... the gang at Matrix knows we missed a lot of deadlines, weekends etc... well now we are trying to make up for it a little. Since here in the states is 4th of July we wanted to make our BANG! So here it is. SPWaW v6.0 is now available for downloading. http://www.matrixgames.com/games/sp-worldatwar/index.asp We know this patch came quick but its been in development for some time. The praise really goes to Mike Wood, Paul Vebber, Tom Proudfoot for there time and endless campaign to give you something better. We feel this is by far the best Steel Panthers game you can find! Our little private playtest group has been loving this version. As always please make sure to give us your feedback.... we really can't wait to hear what you think of version. Once again thank you for your support it is never taken for granted here we hope our dedication to our products shows that. So to the best group of gamers a company could ask for. GO, DOWNLOAD and PLAY that's an order!

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 46

- 7/4/2001 6:10:00 AM

SAMWolf

Posts: 141
Joined: 7/30/2000
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline

[qb)

quote:

So to the best group of gamers a company could ask for. GO, DOWNLOAD and PLAY that's an order![/QB]

America!! What a country!! Thanks Guys. Enjoy the 4th! You've earned it.

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 47

- 7/4/2001 6:11:00 AM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by David Heath: Hi Guys YES you read right... the gang at Matrix knows we missed a lot of deadlines, weekends etc... well now we are trying to make up for it a little. Since here in the states is 4th of July we wanted to make our BANG! So here it is. SPWaW v6.0 is now available for downloading. http://www.matrixgames.com/games/sp-worldatwar/index.asp We know this patch came quick but its been in development for some time. The praise really goes to Mike Wood, Paul Vebber, Tom Proudfoot for there time and endless campaign to give you something better. We feel this is by far the best Steel Panthers game you can find! Our little private playtest group has been loving this version. As always please make sure to give us your feedback.... we really can't wait to hear what you think of version. Once again thank you for your support it is never taken for granted here we hope our dedication to our products shows that. So to the best group of gamers a company could ask for. GO, DOWNLOAD and PLAY that's an order!

Thanks! And good 4th of July too! I know, I can change the infantry toughness settings etc. so I'm just saying what I observed as I quickly continued a game I had saved. I move my four man sherman crew along a road and spot 8 men german squad in destroyed building, I shoot: 1 casualty from fire. Crew experience is 68. I wonder how bad German crews are now? I have 2,4 and 7 man squad in one hex, one of them shoots. No result. One german rifle squad opens fire from 4 hexes. My combined casualties from one fire: 5 casualties(2+3) Other place of map a German squad of 5 men moves. My Ranger squad of 8 from range of 3 hexes reacts, using Thompsons they kill 4 Germans at once. Another German squad of 8 moves, to same range. They move hex with building. Rangers kill 3 of them at once. German squad who lost 3 men, answers the fire, one ranger dies. Another squad fires from bit further, one ranger dies. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]

_____________________________

----------------------------- Sex, rags and and rock'n roll! ------------------------------

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 48

- 7/4/2001 6:39:00 AM

Gremlin58

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/1/2001
From: Boston MA
Status: offline

How come the games that I PAY FOR...... have terrible support..... but you guys update quicker than I read my mail. Labor of love!!! You are the best... you rock my world.

_____________________________

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 49

- 7/4/2001 7:07:00 AM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

@General Mayhem Are these Results a Problem for you? Play some more and see if you still don't like the results and if so then we discuss this Problem. I finished my first Scenario with 6.0 and yea I was right I love it!!! :D :D :D

_____________________________

JOIN The Blitz Wargaming Club
JOIN Napoleonic Wargame Club
JOIN American Civil War Game Club

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 50

- 7/4/2001 7:48:00 AM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by BigDuke66: @General Mayhem Are these Results a Problem for you? Play some more and see if you still don't like the results and if so then we discuss this Problem. I finished my first Scenario with 6.0 and yea I was right I love it!!! :D :D :D

Nay, as I can tweak the preferences. I just think diffrence is quite huge to 5.3. And it is noticenable right a way. SMG's and LMG's seem to quite devastating at close ranges. Also it seems units disperse and surrender easier than before. Can be a fluke, I'll play more and look. But I'm not very optimistic. Already I changed infantry toughness 150, and still casualties seem to come considerably faster than before. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]

_____________________________

----------------------------- Sex, rags and and rock'n roll! ------------------------------

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 51

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >>

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

2.516

Slitherine