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The Pacific - 7/3/2001 1:41:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		How many of you out there really enjoy Pacific scenarios and have a more than passing interest in the War with Japan in the islands? Just curious. If you are, post it here... Thanks, Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 1
- 7/3/2001 3:35:00 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Oh you know I have Bill. Are we talking about playing as japs ot americans btw?

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Post #: 2
- 7/3/2001 4:28:00 PM   
mr172

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 5/15/2000
From: Roma Italy
Status: offline 		My vote count, old Kunel? The mad Italian

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- 7/3/2001 5:28:00 PM   
slehtine

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 6/9/2000
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		I am. I'll play American, japanese, who ever were there! -Sasa

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Post #: 4
- 7/3/2001 6:59:00 PM   
gators

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 5/16/2001
Status: offline 		Banzaii, yall!

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Post #: 5
- 7/3/2001 7:12:00 PM   
dox44

 

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline 		my number one place to fight...a possible Okinawa campaign?

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Post #: 6
- 7/3/2001 7:19:00 PM   
lnp4668

 

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Definitely love the pacific. Just wonder how tough it will be with the new infantry feature in 5.3 :eek:

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Post #: 7
- 7/3/2001 7:28:00 PM   
sven


Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
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quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: How many of you out there really enjoy Pacific scenarios and have a more than passing interest in the War with Japan in the islands? Just curious. If you are, post it here... Thanks, Wild Bill
Hey Bill you know the Pacific is my cup of tea too. regards, sven

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- 7/3/2001 7:35:00 PM   
General Mayhem

 

Posts: 180
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From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: How many of you out there really enjoy Pacific scenarios and have a more than passing interest in the War with Japan in the islands? Just curious. If you are, post it here... Thanks, Wild Bill
I am, very much. One of my favorite movies is 'Thin Red Line'.

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Post #: 9
- 7/3/2001 7:42:00 PM   
davidmiller

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: florissant, mo, usa
Status: offline 		I would be interested in any Pacific Campaign. Also would be interested in a Chinese and Jap slugfest. All of your battles and campaigns are great if I could only stay alive to see the results of my incompetence.

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Post #: 10
- 7/3/2001 7:44:00 PM   
Panzer Capta


Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Most definitely interested in Pacific Campaign. With the new infantry modifications and the melee option, would really like to see a scenerio focused on the mountain assault on Iwo Jima.

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Post #: 11
- 7/3/2001 8:27:00 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Thats really the question isnt it. I have been toying with the idea of a Pacific-Island campaign. But the real problem is finding what unit to follow. A japanese unit would be booring as heck, say one invasion agianst pitiful allied troops in 41 or 42, then nothing until a marine division+ lands in 44 or 45 with 200+ aircraft and 7 battleships in support. Anything not in caves wiped out on turn 1. Or an american campaign. As far as I have understood no unit did more than one or two at the most invasions during the entire war. Perhaps I'm misstaken here, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I suppose one could set up some made up special fire-brigade small unit who got transferred from invasion to invasion, but I tend to like the historical ones better. Any ideas? I would really love to fight a campaign for the japanese in the pacific. Start off in 37 against the chinese, then the russkies, followed by the invasion of the Phillipines perhaps (or against the Dutch in the east indies), after that you get to defend all the islands, Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa. Problem with the japanese is that they always ended their defensive battles with one hell of a Banzai attack. Now who would like to see his beloved core force make a suicide attack like that? I suppose the best jap campaign would be either covering the Philipines or Singapore, or Burma, I dont know, but I want those invasion/defend against invasion battles. Right now I'm leaning more towards the USMC campaign, throw in some ahistorical unit, and let that unit take part in the defence of the Philipines, then off to bold invasions of Guardalcanal, then off to Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo and Okinawa. (Who ever said I liked my campaings short :) I guess one could squeeze out 30-40 battles out of such a campaign including 4-5 opposed landings/invasions. Hmm..more I think about it, the better it sounds. Because the generated campaign for any pacific units isnt really that good (dont get me wrong, I still think this game is the best one ever made), but the maps all look like the swamp from hell if you know what I mean. So, Bill or anyone else, any ideas? Steve [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Panzerjaeger Hortlund ]

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 12
- 7/3/2001 8:35:00 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		The roughest fights are in the Pacific, only the seasoned SPWaW veteran should transfer there. :)

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Post #: 13
- 7/3/2001 8:41:00 PM   
SAMWolf

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 7/30/2000
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		I would love to play an Island hopping campaign as the U.S. Marines.

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Post #: 14
- 7/3/2001 9:09:00 PM   
General Mayhem

 

Posts: 180
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From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by SAMWolf: I would love to play an Island hopping campaign as the U.S. Marines.
In SPaw terms they have both better chance to hit because they're elite AND they carry much more powerful armament than U.S. army(like SMG's). I say, WB, make a U.S. Army campaign/scenarios that make us all humble, so we can distinguish men from mouses. :)

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Post #: 15
- 7/3/2001 9:10:00 PM   
Panzer Capta


Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline 		I think playing from the Japanese perspective would be fine prior to the later periods of the Pacific Campaign.....especially when the Japanese were the aggressors (Russian border,China, and Phillipines). However, later in the Campaign when the Japanese generally fought a defensive war against the USMC, i dont think it would be that interesting from the Japanese perspective. Panzer Captain.

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Post #: 16
- 7/3/2001 9:16:00 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Count me in. Is this going to be a mega with a marine unit?

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Post #: 17
- 7/3/2001 9:19:00 PM   
Mark Ezra

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: Jasmin Ranch, Acton CA
Status: offline 		A Pacific campaign would be great

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Post #: 18
- 7/3/2001 9:39:00 PM   
General Mayhem

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund: So, Bill or anyone else, any ideas? Steve [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Panzerjaeger Hortlund ]
I think landings aren't so essential actually. Far as I've understood, many of them did go awry, and when there was stiff opposition, it was almost slaughter. On the other hand, I'm sure Japanese didn't with each and every island take lot of defensive actions on the beach, but retreated to inlands. Please correct if I'm wrong. But way as I see it, landings aren't necessarily very exiting to play, nor do I'm sure can one learn to make them 'right'. I think best campaign would be one with to two or more landings and two or more big islands which have lot of varying terrain in them. Maybe even some battle in urban terrain with Japanese? What'd I'd love to have, would be chance to choose to where I land my forces. Imagine campaign that uses same maps, but have two to four diffrent troop positions build upon them, depending from which beach one started to advance to inlands. USMC or Army same to me really , but Japanese I would not want to necessarily play. Same to me is it historical or not. :)

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Post #: 19
- 7/3/2001 11:14:00 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Mayhem: USMC or Army same to me really , but Japanese I would not want to necessarily play.
Any scenario played as Japs, early in the war or late, gives wonderful opportunites to kill numerous Marine devils. There are no opponents more difficult than the Japs. Even the Russians weren't as fanatical. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]

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Post #: 20
- 7/3/2001 11:18:00 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Yes to the Pacific Theater and a even bigger YES to a Campaign over there!

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Post #: 21
- 7/3/2001 11:19:00 PM   
CaptainBrian

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/27/2000
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund:Or an american campaign. As far as I have understood no unit did more than one or two at the most invasions during the entire war. Perhaps I'm misstaken here, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I guess one could squeeze out 30-40 battles out of such a campaign including 4-5 opposed landings/invasions. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Panzerjaeger Hortlund ][/QB]
The 1st Marine Division made four amphibious assaults during WWII. Two of these (Okinawa and Guadalcanal) developed into major follow on battles. The 1st MARDIV's assaults were as follows: Guadalcanal (Aug 42) New Britian (Nov 43) Pelilieu (Sept 44) Okinawa (April 45)

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CaptainBrian

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Post #: 22
- 7/3/2001 11:25:00 PM   
CaptainBrian

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/27/2000
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Mayhem: I think landings aren't so essential actually. Far as I've understood, many of them did go awry, and when there was stiff opposition, it was almost slaughter... On the other hand, I'm sure Japanese didn't with each and every island take lot of defensive actions on the beach, but retreated to inlands. Please correct if I'm wrong. Same to me is it historical or not. :)
True many amphib assaults took major casualties, but the Japanese and Germans NEVER repelled a Landing Force be it British, USA, USMC. Iwo Jima was the only battle in which the landing force suffered more casualties than the defenders. In 1944 the Japanese realized the futility of opposing landing forces at the high water mark and begin letting them land relatively unhindered and then forcing them to pay in blood for every subsuquent inch. This is vividly demonstrated at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Basically the Japanese realized they could not win. The best they could hope for was to bleed the allies dry.

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CaptainBrian

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Post #: 23
- 7/3/2001 11:55:00 PM   
General Mayhem

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
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quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: Any scenario played as Japs, early in the war or late, gives wonderful opportunites to kill numerous Marine devils. There are no opponents more difficult than the Japs. Even the Russians weren't as fanatical. [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]
Japanese were difficult to kill, not to win. Because they didn't know how to lose, they continued to fought despite they had lost. That's why US atom bombed Japan and that's why Soviets treated them quite brutally. That's also why I'm not so fond of their troops. To me it anyway seems Japanese were not really good tactically. Also I feel bit ackward commanding troops who's greatest asset is in situations, I mean banzai charges and fighting to last man, where I never want to end. For bit similar reasons, I do not play lot of Russians. I'm not underestimating Japanese, I just say their strenghs were misplaced and used more than one way. To summarize it all up, I do not feel lot of joy playing Japanese. Yeah, I know it is just a game, but still units one can use reflect lot how they are ment to fight.

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Post #: 24
- 7/4/2001 12:08:00 AM   
BruceAZ


Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		I really enjoy them. What I really like is to close the door to my office, shut off the lights and turn up the sound somewhat. You hear all the jungle noise, insects, steam, whatever and gives the battle a new demension. Besides, you KNOW how I like playing US Marines... :D I have given some thought about designing a campaign about the Japanese assault on Malay with the fall of Singapore as the last battle. From the Japanese point of view. It sound sorta cool. Before anybody jumps right into a fight with the Japanese, I would suggest you play some Jap scens or the Guadalcanal Campaign. They can be very tough. Bruce Semper Fi [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: 5thRecon ]

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- 7/4/2001 12:44:00 AM   
A_B

 

Posts: 296
Joined: 4/11/2001
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline
quote:

Right now I'm leaning more towards the USMC campaign, throw in some ahistorical unit, and let that unit take part in the defence of the Philipines, then off to bold invasions of Guardalcanal, then off to Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo and Okinawa. (Who ever said I liked my campaings short I guess one could squeeze out 30-40 battles out of such a campaign including 4-5 opposed landings/invasions. Hmm..more I think about it, the better it sounds. Because the generated campaign for any pacific units isnt really that good (dont get me wrong, I still think this game is the best one ever made), but the maps all look like the swamp from hell if you know what I mean. So, Bill or anyone else, any ideas? Steve
Here are some ideas; Start off in the Philippines, with defense and counterattack against the Japs. Maybe throw in an initial battle against Philippine guerillas in ’37 or ’38, as a way to beef up experience. It doesn’t sound like your trying to edit down the number of battles anyway. Don’t give many replacement points between battles – make it feel really desperate. Don’t get caught on Corregidor though, have the core force get separated from allied lines, and have to escape on old tug to Australia (maybe I should become an author of cheesy dimestore novels). Next battles are on New Zealand, first defensive, and then offensive. I don’t know too much about the battles in that area, but there seemed a lot more opportunity for maneuver than on a small island (duh) – bigger maps, more opportunities for creative tactics, etc.. Islands assaults should be included, but one after another would be a real drag. After cleaning up New Zealand and surrounding areas, move back to the Philippines. Throw in a few amphibious raids against communications posts, POW camps, etc. The new infantry combat in 5.3 and 6.0 should make an all infantry campaign much more interesting. I do ask payment if you use any of these ideas…I get to be a playtester! I started a campaign as the Indians ‘the forgotten war’. Is there any interest in that theatre?

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Post #: 26
- 7/4/2001 12:46:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		THere are quite a number of existing scenarios on the Pacific already in our repertoire of battles. Mine include the following: Scen016 The Bushmasters Scen018 Brave Men of Betio (hard) Scen020 Angels of Los Banos Scen035 Flying Chindits Scen048 The Raiders Hold Scen050 Jungle Rats Scen068 Water to Blood Scen076 A Marine Ordeal Scen082 Blood Soaked Trail Scen090 Hospital Heroes Scen091 Chiang's Nightmare Scen108 The Dirty Work Scen118 A Marine Moment Scen125 Latecomers Scen131 A Marine Proving Ground And there are about a dozen more by other scenario authors. Here are some of those: Scen#11 Gotanda's Advance Scen#24 Corregidor Scen#44 Trail Seven Scen#59 Menado Airport Scen#97 Bloody Gona Scen#98 Gona is Gone Scen#139 Tracks and Sabers Scen#161 Iwo Jima (LARGE!) Scen#191 1st Banzai (Coming) Scen#199 Suluan Island Scen#206 Attack on Indaw Scen#238 Choiseul 1 Scen#239 Choiseul 2 Scen#244 One Gallant Rush Hey, Panzer Captain, check out scenario #118, A Marine Moment. That one is the assault on Mt. Suribachi with Lieutenant Schrier. Oh, did you know Lt. Schrier and Colonel David Shoup appeared in person with John Wayne in "Sands of Iwo Jima" both as actors and consultants? Here is the text file of that scenario. You can even have your own official flag raising. I've revised it so if anyone wants to try the revision, drop me a note. It will be included with the next SPWAW patch. ---------------- A MARINE MOMENT USMC Assault vs Japanese Defend Mount Suribachi,Iwo Jima, Feb.23,1945 Design Notes: (1)The human player must take the USMC side in this scenario. It also works well for a two player or PBEM game. (2)This is a unique scenario. It is a quick play type of battle. Notice that the units are squads split up into teams, each centered around a BAR man. This give the feel of real small unit action. (3)The four Flags adjacent to each other is the point where the flag is to be raised over Iwo Jima. Background On February 19th, 1945, the largest amphibious invasion in Marine history up until that moment takes place at the very doorstep of the Empire of Japan. For the first three days on "Sulfur Island," the Marines endure the most hellish fight of their existence. And it is only just beginning. Conquering this barren piece of rock in the middle of the ocean will require all the courage of men of the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marines Divisions as they head inland. The first goals of General Holland Smith are the capture of Suribachi and taking the first airfield on the island. This will prove to be the hardest battle in the Pacific to date and will be the Marine's finest moment. On the fourth day of battle, The task of taking the crest is assigned to E Company, 2nd Battalion, 28th Infantry Regiment of the 5th Marine Division. Now within sight of the summit, the rifle company wearily climbs toward the final push to the top. Marine Corsairs wing overhead protecting the men below. The few remaining Japanese near the crest prepare to put up one last suicidal stand. It is a different kind of battle. It will now be interesting to see how this works with versions 5.3 and 5.4. Wild Bill [ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]

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Post #: 27
- 7/4/2001 1:00:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Excellent posts, fellas! Glad to see this interest! I am considering a campaign on Okinawa. It is the largest Island battle of World War II in terms of numbers. New Guinea is bigger territorily, but Okinawa is The consumate battle of WW2. I have been researching it now for three weeks. So much there. Another excellent campaign would be Merrill's Marauders and their nearly 8 month stint in the heat and stench of Burma. Finally, Ihave maps and scenarios done for nearly 2/3 of a campaign from the Japanese point of view. Just wondering if folks would play that or not. There is still a lot of ground to be covered and I hope those aspiring to do some will indeed do them. Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 28
- 7/4/2001 1:09:00 AM   
General Mayhem

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: There is still a lot of ground to be covered and I hope those aspiring to do some will indeed do them. Wild Bill
What exactly is needed to do?

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Post #: 29
- 7/4/2001 1:37:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Help yourself, General. You see the list. Whatever is lacking is your opportunity. It was a big war out there in that vast ocean. bring it on! WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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