Make Private rural assets not need public roads

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Suggestions and Feedback >> Make Private rural assets not need public roads

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Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 2:17:33 PM

willgamer

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From: Huntsville, Alabama
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When private rural assets are created by the AI, it's a major headache that a new public road is created, and if unnoticed, can wreak havoc on the LIS network.

I propose that private rural assets assume that a private rural road is created to service them. This road would remain invisible and consume no public LIS.

If the private rural asset is later purchased as a public asset, then a normal public road would need to be constructed.

I believe this will fix a major objection to the current LIS system.

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 3:31:12 PM

Nemo84

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That's just a bandaid on one symptom of the logistic system problem. Solve the main problem, and bandaids like this won't be needed.

(in reply to willgamer)

Post #: 2

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 5:31:27 PM

zgrssd

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In the beta Private assets need 0 LIS for building, and only get a 50% production penalty for having no LIS.

(in reply to Nemo84)

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 6:04:39 PM

Destragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

In the beta Private assets need 0 LIS for building, and only get a 50% production penalty for having no LIS.

What OP said is still valid though: "A new public road is created, and if unnoticed, can wreak havoc on the LIS network."

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 4

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 6:22:43 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

In the beta Private assets need 0 LIS for building, and only get a 50% production penalty for having no LIS.

What OP said is still valid though: "A new public road is created, and if unnoticed, can wreak havoc on the LIS network."

All serious amounts of goods are moved by Rail.

And if your Logistics sysetm can not survive 1 road, it is clearly not robust enough.

That being said, I always keep an eye on my Private Economy plans. And I really would like information and maybe some control where they build as well.

(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 5

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 6:41:48 PM

willgamer

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From: Huntsville, Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

And if your Logistics sysetm can not survive 1 road, it is clearly not robust enough.

That greatly depends upon where the private rural asset is built.

The dirt road may be long, or worse, the new private asset may be outside the support range of any zone and creates bureaucratic inefficiency points that you may not notice until it's a significant problem.

In any event, it also creates a split point that may cause a public asset to quit producing.

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Post #: 6

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 7:12:21 PM

GodwinW

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I want a notification somewhere (letterbox might be good) that a new private asset is build in zone x, and you can click on it to put the hex in sight (next to the letterbox so you can skip through multiple without opening/closing the letterbox every time) and inspect whether you need a traffic sign.
For me that would be all that's necessary.

(in reply to willgamer)

Post #: 7

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 8:09:21 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

And if your Logistics sysetm can not survive 1 road, it is clearly not robust enough.

That greatly depends upon where the private rural asset is built.

The dirt road may be long, or worse, the new private asset may be outside the support range of any zone and creates bureaucratic inefficiency points that you may not notice until it's a significant problem.

In any event, it also creates a split point that may cause a public asset to quit producing.

- If the road is long, the the asset will not end up with a lot of Logistics to run. The split is the same where the road starts
- And the 2nd part you talk about is Adminsitrative Strain, a totally unrelated topic
- thus far I kept on topic and talked exclusively about the split

Just to be clear:
I agree we should get a notificaiton at least, control would be even better.
But the resons your are making to justify it just do not add up.

(in reply to willgamer)

Post #: 8

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 9:08:26 PM

MatthewVilter

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I mean if, for example, the new road splits off of, say, a carefully managed road that is feeding ~110 LP to, say, your only ice mine...things might get ugly in your agricultural sector pretty fast.

(in reply to zgrssd)

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 11:09:30 PM

Destragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

All serious amounts of goods are moved by Rail.

And if your Logistics sysetm can not survive 1 road, it is clearly not robust enough.

It's going to waste half of the logistics points that were coming down the road either way. There's no need in trying to talk this problem down.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/22/2020 11:46:06 PM

cspringer1234

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What if the private faction had to ask your approval to put down their asset, a zoning permit or something? It could pop up as one of those "choice" dialogs that always poke you, +5 commerce -5 government or something? It could tell you the sector they want to put it in, like the hold this sector dialog for explorers.

It gives the opportunity for a few choices, one where you subsidize some of it.. one where they pay you for the rights.. etc..

< Message edited by cspringer1234 -- 6/22/2020 11:48:27 PM >

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 12:02:03 AM

MatthewVilter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

What if the private faction had to ask your approval to put down their asset, a zoning permit or something? It could pop up as one of those "choice" dialogs that always poke you, +5 commerce -5 government or something? It could tell you the sector they want to put it in, like the hold this sector dialog for explorers.

It gives the opportunity for a few choices, one where you subsidize some of it.. one where they pay you for the rights.. etc..

I like this a lot!

And of course they don't put the road down until you click the choice so if you want you can build your own road how you please.

(in reply to cspringer1234)

Post #: 12

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 12:23:23 AM

willgamer

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From: Huntsville, Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MatthewVilter

quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

What if the private faction had to ask your approval to put down their asset, a zoning permit or something? It could pop up as one of those "choice" dialogs that always poke you, +5 commerce -5 government or something? It could tell you the sector they want to put it in, like the hold this sector dialog for explorers.

It gives the opportunity for a few choices, one where you subsidize some of it.. one where they pay you for the rights.. etc..

I like this a lot!

And of course they don't put the road down until you click the choice so if you want you can build your own road how you please.

Very creative!

Loving the discussion.....

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Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to MatthewVilter)

Post #: 13

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 12:26:39 AM

cspringer1234

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MatthewVilter

quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

What if the private faction had to ask your approval to put down their asset, a zoning permit or something? It could pop up as one of those "choice" dialogs that always poke you, +5 commerce -5 government or something? It could tell you the sector they want to put it in, like the hold this sector dialog for explorers.

It gives the opportunity for a few choices, one where you subsidize some of it.. one where they pay you for the rights.. etc..

I like this a lot!

And of course they don't put the road down until you click the choice so if you want you can build your own road how you please.

Here we go Vic, the masses have spoken. LOL It really does fit the theme of the game, bureaucracy 101. It solves the problem of them placing annoying LIS stealing roads without you being aware of it, and stealing your good resources, but it does it in a way that makes it a choice with potential political consequences.

I think you should get requests from the corporation to privatize your existing duplicate assets as well, with more consequences.. privatize profit, subsidize losses is the name of the game for corporations after all.

< Message edited by cspringer1234 -- 6/23/2020 12:27:26 AM >

(in reply to MatthewVilter)

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 1:33:39 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MatthewVilter

I mean if, for example, the new road splits off of, say, a carefully managed road that is feeding ~110 LP to, say, your only ice mine...things might get ugly in your agricultural sector pretty fast.

If you need to limit the Icemine to "just above 100", then you need a more robust System.

I keep my icemine on a 80% block.
Needs 50
Is given 161.
With another city joining the main supply aorta, I easily get enough to the front. And a upgrade for the cities truckstation to T1 is already planned. Working on the biofuel to run it right now.

If you are still trying to mico manage if a 95% or 90% block is the right, that is your issue. Quadruple your supply capacity with a 1 Tier upgrade. Underlying problem fixed.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/23/2020 1:37:56 PM >

(in reply to MatthewVilter)

Post #: 15

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 1:36:55 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cspringer1234

What if the private faction had to ask your approval to put down their asset, a zoning permit or something? It could pop up as one of those "choice" dialogs that always poke you, +5 commerce -5 government or something? It could tell you the sector they want to put it in, like the hold this sector dialog for explorers.

It gives the opportunity for a few choices, one where you subsidize some of it.. one where they pay you for the rights.. etc..

I wrote a sugesteion like that 2 weeks ago:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4827284

(in reply to cspringer1234)

Post #: 16

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 8:30:08 PM

MatthewVilter

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Joined: 4/4/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

If you need to limit the Icemine to "just above 100", then you need a more robust System.

I keep my icemine on a 80% block.
Needs 50
Is given 161.
With another city joining the main supply aorta, I easily get enough to the front. And a upgrade for the cities truckstation to T1 is already planned. Working on the biofuel to run it right now.

If you are still trying to mico manage if a 95% or 90% block is the right, that is your issue. Quadruple your supply capacity with a 1 Tier upgrade. Underlying problem fixed.

Solid advice for playing the game but that doesn't mean it's realistic to get blindsided by this kind of issue over the course of a 2-month turn because there's no notification for new assets going up.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 17

RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/23/2020 10:19:56 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MatthewVilter

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

If you need to limit the Icemine to "just above 100", then you need a more robust System.

I keep my icemine on a 80% block.
Needs 50
Is given 161.
With another city joining the main supply aorta, I easily get enough to the front. And a upgrade for the cities truckstation to T1 is already planned. Working on the biofuel to run it right now.

If you are still trying to mico manage if a 95% or 90% block is the right, that is your issue. Quadruple your supply capacity with a 1 Tier upgrade. Underlying problem fixed.

Solid advice for playing the game but that doesn't mean it's realistic to get blindsided by this kind of issue over the course of a 2-month turn because there's no notification for new assets going up.

I repeat:
I said we need a warning or better full control 2 weeks ago. I am still on that position. The need for it is as solid as it was when I joined here.

But claiming it is because of your issues managing the Logistics system?
Well, that is not actually helping the argument. "Do not understand Logistic System" questions are a dime a dozen. Post that basically start with that, are unlikely to get a solid read by Vic.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/23/2020 10:21:24 PM >

(in reply to MatthewVilter)

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/24/2020 6:49:43 AM

Gozzon

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Joined: 6/20/2020
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And now branching penalty introduced your private sector is actively creating more branching and sabotaging your logistics. Ouch

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RE: Make Private rural assets not need public roads - 6/24/2020 11:57:10 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gozzon

And now branching penalty introduced your private sector is actively creating more branching and sabotaging your logistics. Ouch

It reduces AP. After the 4th Branching (start hex excluded, so you can place it on crossings).

Might get the AI to build less roads, depending on how it accounts for that. Plus we had "remove road" for ages.

This is also exactly what I meant when I said "The Logistics Argument is not a good one to got more information/control over private asset placement".
Once you bring Logistics into a chat, it overshadows everything.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/24/2020 11:59:04 AM >

(in reply to Gozzon)

Post #: 20