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Quick Cargo Questions - 6/24/2020 5:12:12 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Finally getting acquainted with cargo via the stock tutorial and those on Youtube. I have the basic procedures down. Before forging ahead 2 questions:

- Looking at the edit cargo DB listing, it does not appear you can use the procedures to land full squads or platoons of infantry or armor – just small sections and individual tanks etc. In one video, they landed 100 4 man sections (7.62 mm MG) to simulate a battalion. Is that the best/only way land do a large unit type?

-It does not look like, when you transfer equipment from airbase to air base, that you can “roll off” the equipment and use it in combat in the area around the destination AB.

-Inserting land units larger than a section and point 2 above are done by teleportation like in the past. No big deal. Just want to clarify before enjoying what we currently have.

Any tips are welcome. Thanks


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Post #: 1
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/24/2020 6:56:13 PM   
SunlitZelkova

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline 		For question one, that isn't really true, it just depends on how many are loaded. So if I load five individual M1A1s the "Armor" unit that appears when the tanks are unloaded will have five Abrams in it. It depends on the cargo capacity.

For example, if you want to land a platoon of tanks, you will need to add 4 of those tanks via the edit cargo thing when you load your landing craft or whatever. Then the unit that appears will have four tanks.

As for whether your example is the best way or not*, it depends on what you want to do with the unit. If you are going to land your units and have them fight in one location, it is. If you are going to land your units and then have half of them go one way, and half of them go another way it is not. It would be better to use the teleportation event.

For question 2, I don't think you can but I haven't tried it. The answer is probably no.

For question three, yes, but that is only if you need to have small units move in different places (like you want to have a tank company but not in a single unit). You technically can unload a tank company using the cargo function. But because there are so many tanks or infantry sections in a single unit (Armor #4057 or something is what it will be called) it would only take a single cluster bomb to destroy all of them.

In my opinion, with the way it is right now, the cargo function is really good for helicopters and smaller ships when deploying small teams of infantry, but not so good for ships that can carry hundreds of people and to lesser extent, cargo planes carrying paratroopers.

*This assumes your example was someone adding 100x Inf Section (7.62mm MG/Generic AT) to a ship or something, and then unloaded it and it became a single unit called Inf #6058 or something like that.

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(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 2
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/25/2020 4:44:24 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks. I was primarily interested in seeing if whole squads can be landed either at the shore line via boats or paradropped. Seems paradropped units come down as one unit depending on what’s on an individual a/c. So if you load up a c17 with 97 troops, the icon that appears has 97 troops contained in it. Might be nice to be able to drop individual squads especially as the ground combat model is further developed.

Thought it would be cool to be able to roll off equipment at the destination base. You could simulate a Desert Shield type operation or a logistic build up under fire.

Again, no big deal. Just making sure I understand the capabilities of cargo.


_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 3
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 1:35:23 AM   
SunlitZelkova

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Thanks. I was primarily interested in seeing if whole squads can be landed either at the shore line via boats or paradropped. Seems paradropped units come down as one unit depending on what’s on an individual a/c. So if you load up a c17 with 97 troops, the icon that appears has 97 troops contained in it. Might be nice to be able to drop individual squads especially as the ground combat model is further developed.

Thought it would be cool to be able to roll off equipment at the destination base. You could simulate a Desert Shield type operation or a logistic build up under fire.

Again, no big deal. Just making sure I understand the capabilities of cargo.



I think the way cargo currently works is still useful. I can't really imagine a scenario (I mean this in the dictionary sense, not the CMO sense) in a modern war where paratroopers would land and then immediately go into combat. Maybe that has happened in real life, but it seems like they would land a ways away from the battlefield, organize themselves, and then head wherever. The current cargo function would be useful because you don't have to plot courses for like 16 different infantry platoons and if it is a large scenario, it decreases unit count. This would work only if you don't plan to actually have them reach the battlefield during the scenario (in the CMO sense). But I agree it would be nice to be able to land tanks, infantry squads, as the units they are in when added normally to a scenario.

If there are any former paratroopers here, feel free to correct me on what I said about the way airborne operations a conducted in a modern great power war (I was not referring to something like the war on terror).

_____________________________

Formerly known as Project2035, TyeeBanzai, and FlyForLenin

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 4
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 2:28:00 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, cargo is useful for sure. Historically, paratroops tend to land scattered all over the place and rarely organized into nice 97 troop units. While the US maintains a strategic capability to conduct paradrops, they much rather do vertical envelopment via choppers since choppers tend to keep unit cohesion together and losses due hard landings from the sky much lower. It only took and few days and I have a good idea of what current cargo procedures can do and can't. Thanks.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 5
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 3:25:14 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Yeah the cargo feature is great but has its limitations. That is why I like to remind scenario designers that there are three ways to move troops around and each is useful:

1) Cargo - it has the limitations you mention but it is still great and very flexible for the player.
2) Lua - activated by a 'unit enters' trigger you get the formed units that you need, player doesn't have much control however
3) Teleport - the good old fashioned way is great if you modify the units and don't want to mess with Lua to get them right and also for other niche uses, can go wrong in several ways but is still mostly reliable

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(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 6
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 6:05:48 PM   
SunlitZelkova

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Oh, cargo is useful for sure. Historically, paratroops tend to land scattered all over the place and rarely organized into nice 97 troop units. While the US maintains a strategic capability to conduct paradrops, they much rather do vertical envelopment via choppers since choppers tend to keep unit cohesion together and losses due hard landings from the sky much lower. It only took and few days and I have a good idea of what current cargo procedures can do and can't. Thanks.


Your welcome, and thanks for that info about modern airborne operations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Yeah the cargo feature is great but has its limitations. That is why I like to remind scenario designers that there are three ways to move troops around and each is useful:

1) Cargo - it has the limitations you mention but it is still great and very flexible for the player.
2) Lua - activated by a 'unit enters' trigger you get the formed units that you need, player doesn't have much control however
3) Teleport - the good old fashioned way is great if you modify the units and don't want to mess with Lua to get them right and also for other niche uses, can go wrong in several ways but is still mostly reliable


If there is someone new to scenario designing reading this, and you want to be really sure the player doesn't find the units when you use the teleport function, after you modify them and name them how you want them to be, move them to the south pole, or the north pole if your scenario takes place at a very low latitude.

_____________________________

Formerly known as Project2035, TyeeBanzai, and FlyForLenin

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 7
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 6:17:23 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 167
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline 		I think the cargo feature is really great (which is why my first DLC I ever purchased was Chains Of War) and it really excels at being able to use small teams for recon and targeting and coastal raids and stuff like that but if I want to play any larger type of ground operation I usually fire up Steel Panthers.

_____________________________

"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 8
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/27/2020 8:31:24 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
quote:

If there is someone new to scenario designing reading this, and you want to be really sure the player doesn't find the units when you use the teleport function, after you modify them and name them how you want them to be, move them to the south pole, or the north pole if your scenario takes place at a very low latitude



Yes, put them on the other side of the world, and better yet on a different 'non aligned' side that way the player will not be able to detect them. When you teleport the unit, link it with a simple Lua 'ScenEdit_SetUnitSide' command to change it to the player side,

B

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 6/27/2020 8:32:39 PM >

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Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
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(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 9
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/30/2020 12:40:08 AM   
hrfepo1

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/19/2017
Status: offline 		I have a related question for. I am new to cargo and I tried playing Venezuela-Netherland 2-03-22 in CMO. It is a really a fantastic scenario until you try to land the marines. The boats do not launch. I think that the scenario uses teleportation, but can't figure out if boat launch requires a specific trigger or the scenario was design for CMANO and does not work in CMO.

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Post #: 10
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/30/2020 9:54:09 PM   
TheOttoman

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 12/14/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunlitZelkova

If there are any former paratroopers here, feel free to correct me on what I said about the way airborne operations a conducted in a modern great power war (I was not referring to something like the war on terror).



Not a paratrooper, but IIRC both in Grenada and Panama, paratroopers landed pretty much on top of "enemy" (non-friendly secured) airports and quickly encountered resistance.

Here's a list of combat drops just since 9/11:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/post-911-combat-airborne-jumps?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3

(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 11
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/30/2020 10:05:54 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOttoman


quote:

ORIGINAL: SunlitZelkova

If there are any former paratroopers here, feel free to correct me on what I said about the way airborne operations a conducted in a modern great power war (I was not referring to something like the war on terror).



Not a paratrooper, but IIRC both in Grenada and Panama, paratroopers landed pretty much on top of "enemy" (non-friendly secured) airports and quickly encountered resistance.

Here's a list of combat drops just since 9/11:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/post-911-combat-airborne-jumps?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3


I think that with all military operations the commanders conduct an analysis of the risk of various options and chose one that balances risk with likelihood of success. I know AirborneRifles and a few others could weigh in on this one



_____________________________

Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
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Post #: 12
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 6/30/2020 10:19:49 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Technically, those were contested jump zones. But in both Panama and Grenada, there was almost no resistance other than some AA. Once the paratroopers hit the ground, there were a couple minor clashes, but in both cases, the dropped units were able to muster and organize. One of the reasons, as stated, was lack of REAL determined resistance. The other was the presence of helicopter and AC-130 gunships which pretty much convinced enemy forces to surrender, melt away, or go to the bottom of a foxhole.

I have a hard time believing that the US, or any country, would do a large unit combat drop against any kind or organized and competent resistance. Just like typically happened in WW2, the drops will happen where units can organize and recover for a concerted push.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 13
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 7/2/2020 1:54:46 AM   
SunlitZelkova

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline 		Thanks guys for the info about airborne ops.

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Formerly known as Project2035, TyeeBanzai, and FlyForLenin

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Post #: 14
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 9/22/2020 7:11:50 AM   
BrianinMinnie

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/7/2015
Status: offline 		A follow up question on airborne ops, I'm sure I'm missing it but isn't there a way to have a Carrier based Osprey or the like drop a recon team near a city or a suspected Sam site, then use said recon unit to laser it for a incoming air strike? I do see a Forward Observer + a variety of tripods cargo option but what if they have to fight their way in/out?

I tried to see if I can load as cargo, on a Ford class carrier, a Seal team or a Ranger unit(I know they don't float!) and then load them on to a previously loaded CV-22A, but no Joy. I don't even see a Seal team or Ranger or even maybe a Recon unit option that I could use? Would I have to build a unit via individual units, load them, then drop them, group them back together as a single unit to get what I'm looking for? Seems like a lot of work especially since I do seem to be able to load a "Kommando Spezialkrafte", a "Saboteur", a SAS Saboteur", a Sniper Section, a SpecOp Saboteur and finally a Spetsnaz Freaking Saboteur!!!...Come on no love for our US Special forces? just Say'n.

Thanks.

ps Have they ever flown a C-130 off a carrier? Probably a tight fit down the elevator!!!....

(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 15
RE: Quick Cargo Questions - 9/22/2020 8:31:34 AM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 167
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianinMinnie

A follow up question on airborne ops, I'm sure I'm missing it but isn't there a way to have a Carrier based Osprey or the like drop a recon team near a city or a suspected Sam site, then use said recon unit to laser it for a incoming air strike? I do see a Forward Observer + a variety of tripods cargo option but what if they have to fight their way in/out?

I tried to see if I can load as cargo, on a Ford class carrier, a Seal team or a Ranger unit(I know they don't float!) and then load them on to a previously loaded CV-22A, but no Joy. I don't even see a Seal team or Ranger or even maybe a Recon unit option that I could use? Would I have to build a unit via individual units, load them, then drop them, group them back together as a single unit to get what I'm looking for? Seems like a lot of work especially since I do seem to be able to load a "Kommando Spezialkrafte", a "Saboteur", a SAS Saboteur", a Sniper Section, a SpecOp Saboteur and finally a Spetsnaz Freaking Saboteur!!!...Come on no love for our US Special forces? just Say'n.

Thanks.

ps Have they ever flown a C-130 off a carrier? Probably a tight fit down the elevator!!!....


I believe you do have to build your own units from the components. As for the C-130, that's a yes. See the video at USS Forrestal C-130 Hercules Carrier Landing Trials

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"Never get out of the boat" Apocalypse Now

(in reply to BrianinMinnie)
Post #: 16
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