The uses of artillery

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The uses of artillery - 6/19/2020 11:13:12 PM

Hazard151

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So I get that artillery is pretty useful for battlefield preparation, I've been using massed artillery (10 independent battalions) in ranged attack roles to express how much I want my enemy to abandon certain positions.

But what's the use of artillery in a direct attack role? In a preparatory bombardment they greatly impact enemy entrenchment, readiness and morale, but when I attach them to a direct attack they only lower the power balance calculation.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/19/2020 11:33:35 PM

boomboomf22

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I think that formations with only arty don't add much to attacks outside of bombardment. When they are part of a unit with other stuff like the infantry in a siege unit then they represent organic arty on the battlefield and provide firepower to a formation.

Basically they can't fight well by themselves, but when they can hide behind other parts of the same regiment say they are protected and thus can contribute more cause other stuff is taking the hits for them

(in reply to Hazard151)

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/19/2020 11:49:35 PM

Twotribes

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I use them in direct attack all the time cause I havent built large numbers of them yet. They don't generally take any casualties that way.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 12:49:23 AM

Soar_Slitherine

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There seem to be a few mechanics that should increase the effectiveness of artillery in direct attack compared to bombardment.

1) Attacks targeting hidden subunits are penalized, and direct combat increases the recon on the enemy force as it goes on, revealing hidden enemies so the supporting artillery can attack with reduced penalties.
2) If you fire a preparatory bombardment and then follow up with a direct attack, any subunits forced to retreat by hits from the bombardment have an opportunity to recover and still contribute to the defense, but if you go straight into a combined direct attack instead, the attacking force can immediately exploit any retreats forced by the artillery to more easily dislodge the enemy from the hex.
3) During bombardment, enemy artillery can target your artillery with counterbattery fire. If your artillery is supporting other forces in a direct attack instead, the enemy artillery will have other targets to keep them busy, so effective counterbattery fire is far less likely.

Then there are a few reasons why adding more artillery (or other units) to a direct attack might not always be beneficial.

A) When all the units involved in an attack are under the same OHQ, the concentric attack bonus is doubled. In such a case, adding independent artillery not attached to that OHQ will lower the concentric attack bonus.
B) There's a stacking limit - attacking with too many subunits in a single attack will lower their combat efficiency.
C) There's a limit to how many times each target can be attacked in the same combat round without penalty. Artillery doesn't get to have a high attack score, they get to attack multiple times as their firepower increases instead. As such, if they come up before your harder-hitting units in the initiative order (which is determined randomly), they could saturate targets and end up nerfing your most powerful attacks.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 1:27:06 AM

zgrssd

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Some rules worth considering:
- Calibre Calculation: "Ranged attacks see their mm divided by three due to the likelihood of a proximity instead of a direct hit." They have some pretty huge callibres, going up to 240mm. But in ranged that is cut to 80mm equivalent.
- there is actually a concept of frontline/backline. "A Subunit can only attack an enemy backbench Subunit if the attacking Subunit has either accomplished a breakthrough or if it has artillery range. Furthermore, artillery capable Subunits cannot fire on enemy Subunits that have broken through"
- Artillery also has multiple attacks/subround. It is based on Firepower. I am not sure if they can only use those when firing from the backbench or if they can use it during ranged attacks. But in any case, it will prevent enemy breakthroughs (as those are based on not being hit/targeted).
- of course it is there if you attack a hex with artillery. Not like you could choose not to engage them. And they are the usual x2 in defense combat
- in a mixed formation likea siege army, they can provide enemy range attack deterent. And then still be usfull in conventional battle

It really depends what the enemy has in the backline. Common units are artillery and trucks, wich may not be that worth killing. And if the enemy has tanks. If the enemy has a high breakthrough potential (way more subunits then you).

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/20/2020 1:36:38 AM >

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 3:54:31 AM

Twotribes

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Actually artillery foot goes to 300 mm.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 7:39:25 AM

Clux

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I found an OBB of "storm infantry" being very useful since they have x10 light tanks, x10 arty and like x800 infantry , they have good firepower to fight against soft targets and the ligh tanks provide enough hard attack to any buggies or light tanks than you might find, will also making breakthrough most of the combats.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 9:38:35 AM

Cornuthaum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Clux

I found an OBB of "storm infantry" being very useful since they have x10 light tanks, x10 arty and like x800 infantry , they have good firepower to fight against soft targets and the ligh tanks provide enough hard attack to any buggies or light tanks than you might find, will also making breakthrough most of the combats.

I wonder if there's a Storm Grenadier Army, because the ideal comp for me would be something like 600 infantry, 100 MG, 100 RPG, 10 light tanks, 10 artillery. Light Tanks make for awesome soft target killers but the 60mm HV gun (or the small laser) are both fairly poor choices against hard targets, while RPG troopers can and will make any tank rue the day.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 10:16:42 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Actually artillery foot goes to 300 mm.

My first redesign is usually the Arty. And I give it the biggest gun there is (since since weight does not mater for the Infantry version right now).
Never got past 280 mm Howitzer on them.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/20/2020 10:17:10 PM >

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/20/2020 10:18:47 PM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hazard151
But what's the use of artillery in a direct attack role?

The king of battle. Provides balls to the queen.

Offered that joke for any redlegs out there.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 10:50:54 PM >

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/21/2020 12:26:18 AM

MatthewVilter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

When all the units involved in an attack are under the same OHQ, the concentric attack bonus is doubled.

OH WOW! That explains a lot...

That is really handy to know even outside of the context of just artillery. Should probably feature prominently in whatever set of beginner tips are being circulated.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/21/2020 1:22:34 AM

KingHalford

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Great info, thank you!

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Post #: 12

RE: The uses of artillery - 6/21/2020 1:27:21 PM

Hazard151

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Well I think I've found a new use for artillery. Extermination of routing troops.

Step 1: Use tube artillery for battlefield preparation. Why tube? Because tube artillery shoots for multiple combat rounds, which is ruinous to the target's readiness, morale and entrenchment. Rocket artillery is not nearly as effective and more expensive for the same role.
Step 2: Assault with whatever forces you want. You want to either destroy them or dislodge them.
Step 3: Check if the target's been dislodged. If not try another assault or try again next turn. Or occupy the now vacated hex because everybody's dead.
Step 4: Have your rocket/missile artillery plaster the now decidedly not entrenched forces with a barrage. Expect to inflict hefty casualties on the exposed troops.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/25/2020 9:46:48 PM

Arkangilos

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New question for this, how do you upgrade to use tactical nukes? I can�t seem to find that option?

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/25/2020 11:10:45 PM

Dan1911

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Nuclear munitions is for missile launchers

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/25/2020 11:25:09 PM

zgrssd

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Normall Artillery can not shoot nuclear ammo.
Only the special Launcher, Missiles and the Monitor Tank are able to use them.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 12:12:35 AM

Arkangilos

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Ah, thanks

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 1:21:18 AM

Jorge_Stanbury

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Is there any use/ advantage for low caliber artillery?

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 1:53:51 AM

Tomn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Is there any use/ advantage for low caliber artillery?

Cheaper to produce? That's all I got.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 2:30:11 AM

Twotribes

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Should have increasing movement penalty for bigger foot transported Guns. the 2 or 3 lowest no penalty then a small penalty getting a little bigger with each caliber.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 5:26:29 AM

lloydster4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Is there any use/ advantage for low caliber artillery?

Cheaper to produce, uses less ammunition, and uses less logistics for strategic movement.

One interesting quirk about artillery: increasing the caliber of the gun only has a modest effect on the attack value. But, it also increases the number of attacks performed per combat turn. Art will never be able to match the Soft Attack of a direct fire platform, but the extra attacks make it quite effective.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 7:13:28 AM

LordAldrich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Is there any use/ advantage for low caliber artillery?

Cheaper to produce, uses less ammunition, and uses less logistics for strategic movement.

One interesting quirk about artillery: increasing the caliber of the gun only has a modest effect on the attack value. But, it also increases the number of attacks performed per combat turn. Art will never be able to match the Soft Attack of a direct fire platform, but the extra attacks make it quite effective.

Just to elaborate on this, units loose readiness (and entrenchment?) on each hit - so artillery's extra attacks might not kill the target outright, but it will shred through readiness and entrenchment, which is exactly what you want when you're using artillery to soften a target prior to a direct assault!

The extra attacks are also great defensively because anything that takes fire (probably) won't break-through your lines that round. Extra attacks mean extra targets which means fewer breakthroughs.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 10:42:49 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Is there any use/ advantage for low caliber artillery?

The weight is currently irrelevant. Until that changes:
- less ammo consumption
- cheaper to make

Stronger artillery tends to get extra attacks, even if the score for each attack do not go up.

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 10:45:35 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Should have increasing movement penalty for bigger foot transported Guns. the 2 or 3 lowest no penalty then a small penalty getting a little bigger with each caliber.

The mechanic just needs a total rework. I had some sugestions for that at least for mobile artillery. Maybe he could adapt it to human-drawn one as well?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4836910

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RE: The uses of artillery - 6/26/2020 2:47:23 PM

lloydster4

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For non-motorized art, there could be a scaling penalty to readiness lost per AP of movement. In other words, the heavier the gun, the more readiness lost when dragging it around.

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Post #: 25