BPs or BPs?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Suggestions and Feedback >> BPs or BPs?

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BPs or BPs? - 6/30/2020 7:10:24 AM

PyrrhicDefeat

Posts: 26
Joined: 6/24/2020
Status: offline

There are so many types of points in this game, why give two of them the same abbreviation? BPs seem to be used for lots of things, like generating cards as well as research. Bureaucratic Offices produce BPs. So far so good.

But Universities produce "research bonus points" (BPs), while High Command (the building not the skill or the unit) produces BPs and PPs. Bureaucratic Offices BPs look like a book, University BPs look like a castle, and High Command produces BPs that look like a book and PPs that look like a castle. Are University BPs added to Bureaucratic BPs for research despite the different symbols? And University BPs and High Command PPs are different despite using the same symbol?

For the demand to increase BPs pictured below, will building universities help meet the goal or only offices? Are their BPs the right or wrong kind of BPs?

If University BPs are different and don't count towards the goal, how about have "bureaucratic points" (BPs) that are spent for research become "research points" (RPs), and have Universities produce RPs. BPs spent on stratagems and governance become Political Points (PPs). Give GPs, RPs, and PPs each a different symbol. That would differentiate them and make it clearer what each is for.

At the risk of being lost in the rabbit hole forever, I'll also note that pps seem to be different from PPs since my High Command produces 256 Political Bonus Points (neither BPs nor PPs? PBPs?), my dashboard says 87 ppPoints (where did those come from?) gave me 9 extra PPs...

All I can say is, this game would be complicated enough without using the same abbreviations and symbols for different things. Why would you even do that? Please just give everything that isn't part of the same system its own separate name and abbreviation, even if the names aren't perfect.

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RE: BPs or BPs? - 6/30/2020 7:37:27 AM

eddyvegas

Posts: 125
Joined: 6/16/2014
Status: offline

You obviously have BP's confused with BP's. Which are not to be confused with BP's. (Manual, pp. 412, footnote 2.)

I'm joking of course. Yes you make a good point.

Meanwhile someone, somewhere, will click on the 'Delete all 42 Traffic Signs' button by mistake today.

(in reply to PyrrhicDefeat)

Post #: 2

RE: BPs or BPs? - 6/30/2020 7:40:20 AM

Atros

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/26/2020
Status: offline

Those Research Bonus Points are BP (Bureaucratic Points) that are dedicated to go into research, no matter what, when regular BPs are divided by each bureau according to the current budget plan.

Not 100% sure about those Political Bonus Points, but I think they are by the same logic points that go into the Supreme Command to produce extra PPs (Political Points).

Yup, it is well known problem that the team has used quite a lot words and phrases that are too close to each other, best example being "population" versus "populace", when perfectly good alternatives to either would have been "inhabitants" or "citizens" and google translator is nowadays perfect free tool to quickly check for alternative synonyms for nearly any English words when your mind is cutting and none come currently to mind.

(in reply to PyrrhicDefeat)

Post #: 3

RE: BPs or BPs? - 6/30/2020 9:13:11 AM

Gozzon

Posts: 55
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

I don't think Research Bonus Points are ever referred as BP? I mean they even start with Research so if they did have a shortened version it would be along lines of RBP. So no these do not count towards BP only actual BP production from High Command and Bureautic offices count
PP vs pp is capitalization and I think only one using the lower variant is the council created intermediate step as I imagine PPPoints would look even more confusing than ppPoints.

I think you are digging this hole deeper for yourself but hopefully I'm not adding more fuel to the fire:
BP are Bureautic Points. All councils consume these to produce whatever they actual do. As far as I remember there's no Bureautic Bonus Points.
For research and PP there's intermediate step of actual production:
For PP:
BP invested is turned into ppPoints. ppPoints along any pp Bonus Points are then converted to actual PP which then can be used for example stratagems
For Research:
BP invested is converted into research points. Research points along any research bonus points are then converted to actual research progress.

I think all bonus points follow square root math on how they effect the end result where the actual points follow different formula for example research points have "static" value derived from researched tech and game speed. You also get BP penalty when you invest more than 100 points into a single process within a council and it is deducted before any conversion happens. This is why points are separated and made visible since depending on the numbers you might value bonus points or BP more depending on your income.

Also bonus points are as far as I know never referred as BP for obvious reasons.

I agree that it would be very, very nice if all these points would have distinct icons as now there's like 4 or 5 icons with like 20 different points.

(in reply to Atros)

Post #: 4

RE: BPs or BPs? - 6/30/2020 10:15:10 AM

Atros

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/26/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gozzon

I don't think Research Bonus Points are ever referred as BP? I mean they even start with Research so if they did have a shortened version it would be along lines of RBP. So no these do not count towards BP only actual BP production from High Command and Bureautic offices count
PP vs pp is capitalization and I think only one using the lower variant is the council created intermediate step as I imagine PPPoints would look even more confusing than ppPoints.

I think you are digging this hole deeper for yourself but hopefully I'm not adding more fuel to the fire:
BP are Bureautic Points. All councils consume these to produce whatever they actual do. As far as I remember there's no Bureautic Bonus Points.
For research and PP there's intermediate step of actual production:
For PP:
BP invested is turned into ppPoints. ppPoints along any pp Bonus Points are then converted to actual PP which then can be used for example stratagems
For Research:
BP invested is converted into research points. Research points along any research bonus points are then converted to actual research progress.

I think all bonus points follow square root math on how they effect the end result where the actual points follow different formula for example research points have "static" value derived from researched tech and game speed. You also get BP penalty when you invest more than 100 points into a single process within a council and it is deducted before any conversion happens. This is why points are separated and made visible since depending on the numbers you might value bonus points or BP more depending on your income.

Also bonus points are as far as I know never referred as BP for obvious reasons.

I agree that it would be very, very nice if all these points would have distinct icons as now there's like 4 or 5 icons with like 20 different points.

There have been reference to BP in parenthesis in the game when there has been mention of bonus points, as I have noticed this too. The manual explains following:

quote:

5.6.6. Bonus Points and Bonuses
There are many kinds of Bonuses that your Regime can acquire.
At the very start of your turn your Bonus Points (generated previous turn)
and your Regime Feats determine your Bonuses for the current turn.
During production you can acquire Bonus Points that will be used next turn.
The Bonus Points translate in a square root addition to Bonus. Meaning
that 10 Bonus Points give you 3% additional Bonus and 100 Bonus Points
give you 10% additional Bonus.

As I understand it, this means the next turn you will gain bonus multiplier for your invested BP, in addition to the skill multiplier (which to my understanding includes probably a skill roll, as you won't finish researching project every time you start a turn if you reload before turn change) and the director relation bonus.

(in reply to Gozzon)

Post #: 5