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Am I a Keynesian?

 
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Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 3:05:37 PM   
Poliorcetes

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		So how deep is this economic model? Do I need to worry about how high I raise taxes and tariffs?
I see a "free Trade" card which makes me wonder. . .
I notice I only have the option to raise taxes/tariffs.
Post #: 1
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 3:14:16 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Depending of difficulty, you start at 0% tax. So of coruse only only option is to raise them.

From experience, 25% Sales Tax and 50% income tax seem to work fine. It funnels Credits out of the Private economy into your Regime coffers. Usually enough to be self-sufficient without selling.

(in reply to Poliorcetes)
Post #: 2
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 5:19:26 PM   
Poliorcetes

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Well I have sales tax at 125%, export Tariff 125%, and I am raking in the money. My corporation just asked if I would drop their tax from 1487% to 20% . . .

no mention of taxes in happiness so far :)

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 3
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 5:55:03 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		The Tax rate was capped to 100% in the 1.04beta1.

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Post #: 4
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 5:56:31 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Taxes do not appear in the happiness report - or at least not directly. "Luxury Goods and Services" seems to involve them buying some metal, fuel, rare metal and other stuff from the traders. And is easily the biggest source of happiness.
The more taxes you apply, the less they can buy. Especially the sales tax.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 5
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 6:03:54 PM   
lloydster4

 

Posts: 164
Joined: 6/19/2020
Status: offline 		It's in your best interest to develop private assets. This can be accomplished through laissez-faire, public investment, or some combination of the two.

Does seem a bit strange that taxation wouldn't affect happiness. Public investment gives a boost to happiness though. So you could tax every credit out of your citizens, then give it right back to them and they'll thank you for the pleasure.

(in reply to Poliorcetes)
Post #: 6
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 7:21:14 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		Taxes can definitely become problematic.

Income Taxes: If this is too high your Private economy cannot save money in order to build new stuff. I think negative Private economy could mean people do not get paid and they emigrate, but I am not sure that's modeled. I have definitely had situations where I decreased taxes in order not to crash the Private Economy. When they start mothballing stuff you're in for a nice cascade effect :p
Of course, this could have other reasons too, meaning don't automatically assume you have to lower taxes when they mothball stuff: investigate.

Trade Tariffs: Not really an issue but if you want a joint victory eventually one of the steps is 'Free Trade' which removes all tariffs from either side.

(in reply to lloydster4)
Post #: 7
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 8:44:34 PM   
EuchreJack

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Just speculating here, but pretty sure negative private economy means people starve, since they can't afford food. Now if Emergency Food is on, they won't starve, but they won't be as happy as if they could afford to buy food.

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Post #: 8
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 8:50:43 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		I don't know if that necessarily means they'd starve without having emergency food on (I always have it on), but yes it can well lead to that due to them not having enough workers on their farms. Silly gits do upgrade to a Farm III which costs LOTS of jobs rather quickly (I'm actually thinking whether the Private Economy shouldn't need that many jobs on those farms or they should be a bit more careful to have a pop buffer before upgrading).

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RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 9:42:40 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EuchreJack

Just speculating here, but pretty sure negative private economy means people starve, since they can't afford food. Now if Emergency Food is on, they won't starve, but they won't be as happy as if they could afford to buy food.

That only happens if they also have a food deficit. And hte farm is sitll running fine.

That being said, I always have Emergency Food enabeled.

(in reply to EuchreJack)
Post #: 10
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/1/2020 10:46:14 PM   
Lovenought

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/21/2017
Status: offline 		You want at least some taxes, so you can suck money out of your big cities and reinvest it into your smaller cities. Otherwise the Civilisation level in your big 100k+ cities will rise faster than the living standard in some random mining town of 15k, and then the workers in these smaller towns get really unhappy (and thus produce less, bad when they are your critical supply of steel for example) or even leave entirely. You can put Public Investment up really high, into the hundreds. I have like 500 on some towns.

Moderate taxes and selling stuff to the world market allows you to even out your empire. It also means less logistical burden, since these places can build Farming Domes sooner so it doesn't have to be shipped in. And they'll eventually start making mines you can nationalise, not just private QoL buildings.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 11
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 12:11:41 AM   
diamondspider

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 5/15/2020
Status: offline 		Last few games I have never raised any kind of tax or imposed any tariff. Raging private economy seems to help draw in population, which happens to be the main way to win.

(in reply to Lovenought)
Post #: 12
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 3:02:03 AM   
mek42

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Upstate (Central) NY
Status: offline 		Raising income tax twice and sales tax once feels ok to me, with some mild private investment, 1-2 credits/turn. I've not made it past early game yet, though.

(in reply to diamondspider)
Post #: 13
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 7:44:35 AM   
GI Seve


Posts: 101
Joined: 6/27/2000
From: Oulu, Finland
Status: offline 		I'm definitely stealing that idea to boost public investment up to 1k for one or two turns for the new colonies. Will get the civilian side good boost early on.

_____________________________

HallelujaaGobble!

(in reply to mek42)
Post #: 14
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 2:05:52 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GI Seve

I'm definitely stealing that idea to boost public investment up to 1k for one or two turns for the new colonies. Will get the civilian side good boost early on.

I never got the slider to go anywhere near that height. 2 digits to low 3 digits is the top I could set it at.

(in reply to GI Seve)
Post #: 15
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 3:29:46 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		Must be a low civ score/level? I could set it to more then 1100. Was a big help that I could.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 16
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 4:28:03 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		I made a note to take a closer look at the taxation consequences.
I think some tuning might be in order.

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 17
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 4:52:25 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		I would love to know if my guess in another, related, thread was correct Vic: is the emigration to newly conquered city due to the population not getting taxed in unincorporated zones? Because they really are objectively worse in every other way :p

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 18
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/2/2020 9:33:10 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I would love to know if my guess in another, related, thread was correct Vic: is the emigration to newly conquered city due to the population not getting taxed in unincorporated zones? Because they really are objectively worse in every other way :p

And I keep telling you:
It is propably taht the Zone needs Public Workers and Privat Workers, wich means it runs out of Private Economy workers. Wich results in pretty high Private Salaries, like 7 miliCredits.

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 19
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/3/2020 6:15:49 AM   
josefrees

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/24/2020
Status: offline 		I see a lot of mention of taxes, but what about tariffs?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 20
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/3/2020 10:15:59 AM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I would love to know if my guess in another, related, thread was correct Vic: is the emigration to newly conquered city due to the population not getting taxed in unincorporated zones? Because they really are objectively worse in every other way :p

And I keep telling you:
It is propably taht the Zone needs Public Workers and Privat Workers, wich means it runs out of Private Economy workers. Wich results in pretty high Private Salaries, like 7 miliCredits.


No. In fact, my home city needed those private salaries. And it's before I build anything in the new city, and even before I set worker salary higher than 0. And my home city, who was in dire need of workers the entire latter half of the game, never ever set pay higher than 0.001 credit.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 21
RE: Am I a Keynesian? - 7/3/2020 3:05:13 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I would love to know if my guess in another, related, thread was correct Vic: is the emigration to newly conquered city due to the population not getting taxed in unincorporated zones? Because they really are objectively worse in every other way :p

And I keep telling you:
It is propably taht the Zone needs Public Workers and Privat Workers, wich means it runs out of Private Economy workers. Wich results in pretty high Private Salaries, like 7 miliCredits.


No. In fact, my home city needed those private salaries. And it's before I build anything in the new city, and even before I set worker salary higher than 0. And my home city, who was in dire need of workers the entire latter half of the game, never ever set pay higher than 0.001 credit.

I get more then 0.001 credits Private Worker salary without a dire need for workers.
Something in your claims is not adding up. But I can not say what, without more data.

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 22
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