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Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/3/2020 10:37:36 PM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		It is incredibly frustrating to have units starve to death while hundreds of logistics points are bringing in construction material instead of the proportionally tiny amount of food they need to not die. If possible food should be prioritized over construction and other supplies, or some mechanism should be available to allow the player to set the priority of distribution themselves.
Post #: 1
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/3/2020 10:57:39 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Deliveries to units is already prioritized. It is point 2 on the "list of things the SHQ does automatically".

Water, Fuel, Energy and IP need 0 Logistics capacity anyway.
And moving food is literally the 1st thing the logistics system does in any of the 4 Steps.
So your theory of that stuff not going first is at best unfounded.

Sounds like you just do not have anywhere close to enough logistics in the right places to move the food!

I think you need to learn how the System even works, to figure out what you are doing wrong.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4834257
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4843217



< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/3/2020 11:02:00 PM >

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 2
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 7:05:05 AM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		This is clearly and easily proven untrue.

To preface this, the SHQ has been limited to 30% for SHQ -> Zone and 40% for SHQ -> Unit, though I do not think it matters here because of the limited nature of the logistical branch. Difficulty setting is Hard, if that is relevant.

The 2nd Mechanized Heavy Storm Grenadier Infantry Brigade sits at the very edge of my empire in the newly conquered city of Silverthaw. A road and rail is present, but the rail station has only just finished construction so only a fraction of the massive rail system is available to the city.

i.imgur com/XLMPMRs.png

A total of nearly 900 logistics points were allocated to the supply of this city and its nearby troops, which has just completed the last 0,23 turns of construction of a new Barracks, Hospital, and HS Rail Station. According to the Items tab 151 Metal and 3 Machines were brought in to assist with construction along with 27 Food brought in for the Workers.

i.imgur com/HQtu9Tg.png

According to the manual all of this should cost 180 weight, although the city seems to take up 361 logistics points. SHQ -> Zone took what it needed and left behind more than enough for the food, and the result?

i.imgur com/ze78QdB.png

If Fuel and Energy were free, they would be topped up, but they were not. If Food was the top priority, it would have been topped up first regardless of Fuel and Energy transport costs, but it was not.

Some units have moved this turn, but as logistics take another turn to come online after construction let us see the result before and after ending turn.

Before:

i.imgur com/1xCWDSp.png

After:

i.imgur com/3T7sMbs.png

The city has taken a lion's share of the logistics, but not all of it; only 653 - the amount available on the city hex itself - of the over 800 points used for the sector were delivered to the Zone, which is why I said I do not think the percentages set at SHQ matter here. There are however enough leftovers to feed the troops, but instead:

i.imgur com/35RYlNr.png

Again and despite sitting on the city hex the unit has not topped off Fuel and Energy and is getting a pittance in Food. As you can see stocks are not the issue.

Two things of interest here: one, the only unit that is properly fed is the HQ, although even it was not topped off on Energy and Fuel.

i.imgur com/eHd0uCx.png

And two, the 3rd Independent Recon Regiment has used 62 logistics points (visible on the After picture), receiving 60 Energy and 2 Food, again suggesting Energy is not free, and also that it is not the direct link to SHQ but something unique to the OHQ that makes it prioritise food deliveries.

i.imgur com/dJPTwPj.png

Finally, as a bonus to demonstrate costs with Fuel and Energy, let's end turn once more after shuffling the troops a bit to avoid getting cut off by the Farmer swarm.

i.imgur com/GmpaRmr.png

Over 3000 logistics points used! 1166 for the Recon Regiment alone which sucked up 1132 Energy and 34 Food.

I believe this covers and sufficiently proves my argument.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 3
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 8:16:39 AM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		I found something interesting. It seems the rail line without a railhead could be at fault here. Have a look at this screenshot:

i.imgur com/OEXkaIv.png

The units that are drawing supply from the main rail to the west like the 30th in this example are getting a full allotment of Food even though they are not receiving enough Energy. On the other hand the rail line without a railhead to the east is used to supply the 29th, and it is taking an equal percentage of Food and Energy. This applies to the 28th as well.

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 4
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 11:32:30 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Show me the bottleneck Mapmode and the Initial Logistics Map mode, and I tell you where your mistake is.

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 5
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 1:08:12 PM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		I have no idea what that is supposed to prove; this is not the currently available view, but USED points. It matters little where the bottleneck is, these points were USED and the only units close enough to use them were those on screen.

But here you go, knock yourself out:

i.imgur com/9ilbVDI.png

i.imgur com/EojWIB1.png

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 6
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 2:07:32 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		That is nothing but a giant peice of bottlenecks:


Right now:
- the weaknest part of the eastern connection is a 759 Segemnt. the units are 20 hexes from teh nearest city.
- the weakest segment for the north/east troops is a 521. this one is "only" 12-15 Hexes away.

How can you even think about blaming the logistics System here, when it is clearly that you got nowhere close to enough logistics in the right places?

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/4/2020 2:08:47 PM >

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 7
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 2:32:03 PM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		What does that have to do with the system clearly not prioritising Food, which, if you still remember, is what I was complaining about in the first place, or that Energy is not free to transport to troops, which I have thrown in as a bonus?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 8
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 2:45:26 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wixit

What does that have to do with the system clearly not prioritising Food, which, if you still remember, is what I was complaining about in the first place, or that Energy is not free to transport to troops, which I have thrown in as a bonus?

It is prioritizing food. It is getting as much food throuhg as is mathematically possible with total failure of a logistics line.

The reason they are dying to hunger, is called "Wixit", not "bad prioritisation".

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 9
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 3:48:13 PM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		Alright, let's think about this for a moment instead of insulting me, how about that?

As you clearly stated, 759 is the lowest number of logistics points on the line. What is the total food consumption of my units?

From the screenshot you can clearly see 20 was required by the 3rd Mech Battalion. Five of these plus there is an HQ and a Recon Regiment here as well, so let us round all of this up to 200. Hell, 300 just to be safe.

Now, I do not know what mathematics looks like in your elementary schools, but I have been taught 300 is less than 759. So I would kindly ask you to stop implying I am a moron and put your ego aside for long enough to realise that you have been wrong.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 10
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 6:50:51 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wixit

Alright, let's think about this for a moment instead of insulting me, how about that?

As you clearly stated, 759 is the lowest number of logistics points on the line. What is the total food consumption of my units?

From the screenshot you can clearly see 20 was required by the 3rd Mech Battalion. Five of these plus there is an HQ and a Recon Regiment here as well, so let us round all of this up to 200. Hell, 300 just to be safe.

Now, I do not know what mathematics looks like in your elementary schools, but I have been taught 300 is less than 759. So I would kindly ask you to stop implying I am a moron and put your ego aside for long enough to realise that you have been wrong.

Insulting me as "dumber then Elementary School"? I hope you did not asume that was a sign of maturity?

In the meantime I noticed that you also have a city there (well hidden under those units, btw).
Wich I asuemd consumed like 600-700 of those Logistics for building materials, non-Emergency Food and other stuff.
759-700 = 59
59/6 = ~10 per

Sorry, but if you got that far out of your way to starve your units, it really is not the Logistics systems fault!

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/4/2020 6:52:02 PM >

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 11
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/4/2020 6:55:39 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Btw, food already has as exception for Operational Supply:
"Food Supply range exception rule
Also keep in mind the exception rule that Food is supplied at 100% of request even if the Units is a the outer edge of picking up supplies. It is thus for example possible for a Unit to receive 100% of Food request but only 25% of Ammunitions request."
5.10.7.3.

"A Unit can pick up full supplies and replacement Troops up to 50 AP distance range from its initial Hex. After that it will pick up partial supplies up to 100 AP distance range.The exception is Food! Which is always delivered in full if you are within the 100 AP distance range."
5.11.1.2.

So the game already goes out of it's way to get food to those units. Including outright ignoring the normal drop-oof for Operational Supply when food is concerned.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 12
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/5/2020 5:31:14 AM   
LordAldrich

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 9/30/2014
Status: offline 		There is clearly some sort of bug here. The LP capacity of your network is irrelevant when talking about fuel and energy, both of which are weightless (as you mentioned). You have a clear, unbroken chain of hexes with LP between the SHQ and the units - they should have been topped off. So something is broken.

I don't know what's up with the unit food situation, but given the obvious bug with the fuel and energy it might be broken too and I don't see much value in speculating as to how (we can't see the code anyway). I would summarize this and post your save file in the Tech Support forum so that Vic can take a look.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 13
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/5/2020 6:46:38 AM   
Wixit

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2018
Status: offline 		zgrssd: You have not even bothered to read my long post where I described in detail the city, how much it is drawing, and several turns of activity. You are not serious with helping me.

LordAldrich: I still have the turn autosave, I'll see what I can do with sending it to Tech Support. As for the LP, it seems to me Energy (and likely Water and Fuel) are not counted for Zone to Zone transfer but are counted for transfer to units.

(in reply to LordAldrich)
Post #: 14
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/5/2020 7:43:08 AM   
LordAldrich

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 9/30/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wixit
As for the LP, it seems to me Energy (and likely Water and Fuel) are not counted for Zone to Zone transfer but are counted for transfer to units.


Could be! There's no listed value for them anywhere in the manual (not that I trust a PDF manual to be kept up to date), so no way to do math to try to estimate.


On a related note, I think the idea that we have magical free pipes and high voltage power lines when we have to pay for dirt roads is absurd.

(in reply to Wixit)
Post #: 15
RE: Prioritize unit food for logistics - 7/10/2020 9:25:49 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		The thing is that Fuel might be crucial as well... for example to move back into good supply range.

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(in reply to LordAldrich)
Post #: 16
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