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Should I spawn lots of MG battalions?

 
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Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 1:32:17 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		So very early on the game, I normally start surrounded by passive-aggressive minors, they won't attach, but they will try to surround and mess up my frontiers

issue is that I need most of my army to attack or fight "A", so I can't devote more than a couple militia units to cover all other directions

would it be a good idea to build, say 8, maybe more MG battalions just to keep my borders more or less secure? I know if a "non aligned" appears it will trash them, but at least would give me some time to react

any other ideas on how to deal with it?

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 2:50:57 PM   
Jdane


Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		If the minor regime type and culture allows it, you can also use diplomatic Stratagems to sign peace and stabilize the borders.

Alternatively, a formation such as a brigade of light or MG infantry would allow the individual units to benefit from the bonuses provided by an OHQ. But that would be more expensive in terms of manpower.

MG battalions are indeed an interesting proposition, more or less depending on your circumstances. Plus they're quite good at defense, particularly if you can find terrain allowing good entrenchment.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 3:03:04 PM   
ramnblam

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 6/9/2020
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Hell yes, early game I use MG battalions to garrison my capital and hold my borders, scout with the militia and use my OHQ brigades to fight the enemy.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 3:27:21 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Those regimes that are willing to sign peace are typically the best targets for expansion ;)

I like the idea of MG battalions because of the low cost in manpower and industry, which are at premium early game; and a unit is a unit, a battalion or a regiment will still occupy a hex regardless of size

I will see how it goes

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 4:19:24 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		I try not to waste my valuable recruits at the start unless I can form a basic infantry stack with an OHQ. Most minor factions have the same supply rules as you so if you cut them off they will tend to retreat back. So you don't need a solid line of militia forces to hold a reasonable area - a one or two hex gap between units is usually fine to maintain a line. And then if you move up maintaining your own supply they will tend to fall back.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 5:06:20 PM   
LordAldrich

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 9/30/2014
Status: offline 		It's actually best to get your recruits turned into actual troops as soon as possible. They gain XP even if you've raised them as reinforcements and they just hang out at SHQ.

Unit formations in this game are fluid things, you can always change their type and move troops around so there's no reason to wait (unless you're saving up to buy some tanks or something).

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 7:09:05 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		All independant batallions except Motorized (due to truck crew) and pure Infantry use only 500 Manpower.
And among those, MG are the cheapest, even if far from cheap. They also offer pretty good defense vs soft targets.

So if you are short on manpower, that propably is the only option to get a lot of units out. I really wish there was something cheaper we could use, but them.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 7:23:20 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		my biggest challenge, game wise, so far is that by turn 5 or 6, while I am invading my closest neighbor; I have pretty much all I can field committed. This is typically one infantry regiment or with luck a brigade + most of the militias

The problem is that if raiders/ mutants/ AI/ slavers, etc decide to invade my territory, it is game over. At most I was leaving 2 militias for rear guard duty and that was not enough to do anything if the enemy arrived in force. Add 4 or 6 MG battalions and then I have enough forces to at least protect and delay until I can redeploy

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/25/2020 7:24:42 PM >

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 8:03:03 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

my biggest challenge, game wise, so far is that by turn 5 or 6, while I am invading my closest neighbor; I have pretty much all I can field committed. This is typically one infantry regiment or with luck a brigade + most of the militias

The problem is that if raiders/ mutants/ AI/ slavers, etc decide to invade my territory, it is game over. At most I was leaving 2 militias for rear guard duty and that was not enough to do anything if the enemy arrived in force. Add 4 or 6 MG battalions and then I have enough forces to at least protect and delay until I can redeploy

1 Brigade should be enough to defeat most minors. Maybe add 1-2 larger Militia units. The rest can stay back for defense. The worst regular soldier design still beats the starting Minor Militia 2/1 in any stat.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/25/2020 10:18:42 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I defeat Minors usually even with light Infantry, sometimes if Only light Infantry I need to add a second Brigade or add artillery. I always start with 2 armies per zone though so cant help ya if you start with less.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/26/2020 4:21:02 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		with higher difficultly level and city state/ militia start it is not that easy/ fast to do so

it is easy if it is a farmer minor, but Raiders, which would field tanks, trucks, buggies, motorcycles it can be though; I will still defeat them, but it won't be in 2/3 turns, hence the need to get some troops to guard the borders

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/26/2020 4:45:40 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		If you want a real mass of units, try forming Battlegroups.
- you can create them from other units
- they need a minimum of 3 Units in source and target and cost 2 PP to form from scratch

So you could:
- raise a Size 10 Independant Infantry unit.
- Split of 2 Size 3 Battlegroups for 4 PP
- reinforce the unit to repeat the whole process

There should be nothing smaler or cheaper in IP (unless you got leftover subunits already around), but of course the PP cost is rather high.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 6/26/2020 11:04:16 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

So very early on the game, I normally start surrounded by passive-aggressive minors, they won't attach, but they will try to surround and mess up my frontiers

issue is that I need most of my army to attack or fight "A", so I can't devote more than a couple militia units to cover all other directions

would it be a good idea to build, say 8, maybe more MG battalions just to keep my borders more or less secure? I know if a "non aligned" appears it will trash them, but at least would give me some time to react

any other ideas on how to deal with it?


Yes they are the best thing to fill those gaps in lines. Put them up mountains, if available. Precious, precious 500 men MG units, in my latest game I have tens of them.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 7/5/2020 8:54:21 AM   
sw30

 

Posts: 410
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
So you could:
- raise a Size 10 Independant Infantry unit.
- Split of 2 Size 3 Battlegroups for 4 PP
- reinforce the unit to repeat the whole process

There should be nothing smaler or cheaper in IP (unless you got leftover subunits already around), but of course the PP cost is rather high.



These smaller units don't exert ZOC, right? What determines when units exert ZOC? Unit Size? Recon Value?

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 7/5/2020 12:28:52 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sw30

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
So you could:
- raise a Size 10 Independant Infantry unit.
- Split of 2 Size 3 Battlegroups for 4 PP
- reinforce the unit to repeat the whole process

There should be nothing smaler or cheaper in IP (unless you got leftover subunits already around), but of course the PP cost is rather high.



These smaller units don't exert ZOC, right? What determines when units exert ZOC? Unit Size? Recon Value?

I think recon value.

But theses small units purpose is to be so many, you just have one in every hex anyway. No ZoC needed.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/5/2020 12:29:25 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 7/5/2020 12:30:03 PM   
Jdane


Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		Every Unit exerts a Zone of Control. The only exception being if it has not been detected by the enemy, as « to not give their presence away » to quote the manual (5.10.14.5.).

It only applies a 10 Action Points penalty for moving into a controlled hex though, so it's not very noticeable, but it is there.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 7/5/2020 12:31:28 PM >

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 7/5/2020 9:01:49 PM   
sw30

 

Posts: 410
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		Pretty sure the manual is out of date by now. I've seen the manual stated 10 action points, I've also seen 20 and 0. If your unit isn't large enough to exert a minimum level of some sort (and I think it's in recon points, which the hex recon section doesn't say)you not only do not auto-control a hex, you don't exert the ZOC.

Try it with a just spawned GR infantry of 2-300 units. They don't control hexes around them and they don't exert ZOC.

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RE: Should I spawn lots of MG battalions? - 7/5/2020 9:57:18 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sw30

Pretty sure the manual is out of date by now. I've seen the manual stated 10 action points, I've also seen 20 and 0. If your unit isn't large enough to exert a minimum level of some sort (and I think it's in recon points, which the hex recon section doesn't say)you not only do not auto-control a hex, you don't exert the ZOC.

Try it with a just spawned GR infantry of 2-300 units. They don't control hexes around them and they don't exert ZOC.

I am pretty sure it is based on Recon as well. Might even be relative recon (as some terrain does give Hide Bonuses).

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Post #: 18
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