D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule

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D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/21/2020 5:53:56 PM

larryfulkerson

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T1, Konigsburg
I've restarted again to test out my changes to the scenario. I removed the RR engineers from the divisional HQ's but left them in the Corps HQ's to slow down the rail repair a bit. I'm posting to show where I've dropped the paratroopers. I'm trying to prevent the Soviets from getting away from my advancing troops. Yes, I'm aware that they can go around my people and still get away but I'm trying to make it a slower, harder process for them. I'm hoping to get close to Riga on this first turn move.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/21/2020 5:54:07 PM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/21/2020 5:57:57 PM

larryfulkerson

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I've posted the scenario I'm playing here below just in case you wanted to test it out yourself. It's D21_lgf.sce ( 07/21/2020 ) and the scenario specific folder for the override folder. It's 2.3Meg big.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/22/2020 6:55:12 PM

atheory

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I generally push armor up the main rail line to riga. I get them up to where the soviet artillery unit is. Then use the para units to convert the rail to just one hex away from riga and north towards the water to form a large isolated pocket west of the main rail line. Then rail security units along the rail line, 3-4 inf divisions and engineers going to just outside of riga.

What's the red green yellow rule?

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/22/2020 6:59:14 PM

atheory

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I think you should consider removing all RR from HQ units, and instead create 10-12 RR engineer units to replace the original RR units that can only move by rail. Since an engineer unit can move in any hex, that should solve the inefficiencies found with the original RR units. If you don't want to delete the old RR units, they can just go hide in a corner.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/23/2020 12:13:34 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: atheory
I generally push armor up the main rail line to riga. I get them up to where the soviet artillery unit is. Then use the para units to convert the rail to just one hex away from riga and north towards the water to form a large isolated pocket west of the main rail line. Then rail security units along the rail line, 3-4 inf divisions and engineers going to just outside of riga.

That's a great idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: atheory
What's the red green yellow rule?

This is a rule I got from Steve Sill, scenario designer extraordinare. Units that are red in health can't move or shoot. I've modified this part of the rule to allow red units to move toward higher supply areas. Units that are yellow can move but not shoot. Units that are green can move and shoot like normal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: atheory
I think you should consider removing all RR from HQ units, and instead create 10-12 RR engineer units to replace the original RR units that can only move by rail. Since an engineer unit can move in any hex, that should solve the inefficiencies found with the original RR units. If you don't want to delete the old RR units, they can just go hide in a corner.

I like this idea a lot. RR engineers that move only via rail are sometimes frustrating.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/23/2020 2:07:01 AM

larryfulkerson

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T1, 150mm Nebelwerfer
It would be supercool if we could mod our game to be able to post a picture on the unit report. Of a piece of equipment or similar info about the unit. Maybe it's commander or maybe the piecharts for proficiency, readiness, and supply so we could tell at a glance how the unit fairs.

And another thing.....those pieces of equipment that I don't have any of yet...I'd like to know when I start building those. And for those pieces of equipment that I do have.....I'd like to know from this dialog how many I have on hand, how many I make per turn, and how many I have assigned so far. The info on how many I've lost so far would be a chrome bonus in this case. For each item of equipment. It would require rebuilding the entire dialog I'm afraid so my guess is that we won't be seeing those new items anytime soon. Just off the top of my head.

What might be cool too is the ability to use a scripting language something like Python or Lua where we could build our own dialogs or do some kind of SQL search for specific things, how many of *SomeImportantThing* do we have and where are they, etc.

And a tooltip popup that will tell us exactly how much of the turn including *this* unit in the battle will cost [ before you actually assign it to the battle ].

Bob already has his hands full doing other priority dialogs but we can only dream.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/4/2020 5:19:54 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/23/2020 10:23:02 PM

DD696

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I am always amazed when I can log in!!!

But, the reason for logging in is that I simply modify the number of hexes that can be repaired each turn in the events editor. This seems to work very well, however, as is well known, it takes so much time to play the scenario and find the sweet spot. No need to add extra RR engineer units. It is a go*damn shame that a player cannot modify a game in process to find what works best.

I get quite discouraged having to replay the first 40-80 turns to find what what works best, only to have to start over.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/23/2020 10:32:11 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

I get quite discouraged having to replay the first 40-80 turns to find what what works best, only to have to start over.

Yeah, but I don't know of any other way to see if it's balanced or not. Elmer playing Elmer can go faster but his gameplay style is questionable.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/23/2020 10:37:38 PM

DD696

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Elmer's game play style is, well, worthless in playing out computer versus computer. You may as well go insane and become like all proud Marines.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/24/2020 4:28:28 AM

larryfulkerson

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T2, Rushing Riga Relentlessly
This is the beginning of T2 and I haven't moved very many units yet so this view will change a LOT this turn. The railhead has progressed more than I deserve but I'll take it. The Panzers are at the tip of the spear and the follow on forces are getting a handle on the Soviet remnants here and there. I'm going to use the rail to move the troops when it's possible to save the wear and tear that happens when you move a unit on foot.

German Heavy Rifle Squad Numbers
Right now I have 2927 German Heavy Rifle Squads on hand and 29.5K assigned and I've lost 1667 of them. I'm only making 428 per turn so I'm losing them much faster than I'm building them. I'll have to remember to keep an eye on the number assigned from now on. There's one He-111 unit down south that got down to 53% supply and turned yellow so I'm resting him but the rest of the air fleet is green. The supply levels at the very front are in the high 40's. Most of the Axis units in this image are rushing to the NE as fast as they can go. I'm clearing the coastal ports while I'm at it. I've got lots of AT gun units and MP units busy converting enemy territory before it becomes a problem in my backfield. When you don't convert the hexes sometimes enemy units will spawn in them in your backfield. It's happened to me more than once.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/25/2020 2:52:11 AM

larryfulkerson

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T2, Minsk
This is the Minsk area right now. I've got my recon units way out in front to find which way is the fastest to go and where are the Soviet units. I got a line of supply to another of my paratroopers so maybe they will come out of recon in time for me to fly them again. The rails are right up at the front since the chance of rail destruction is so low. It increases each turn so I need to take advantage of it now while I still can. It's something like 25% this turn and will jump up to 50% next turn IIRC.

Warsaw is an aircraft depot and maint. facility
I've moved OKH to Warsaw to help encourage the aircraft with political speaches at the new aircraft depot I'm opening there. Warsaw has multiple airfields close together and that's handy. Actually there's about 3 HQ units there to help encourage the aircraft since there's so many resting this turn. Actually there's 8 yellow / resting bombers now; the rest of the air fleet is green. Supply levels are outstanding.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/25/2020 2:55:54 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/29/2020 4:15:26 PM

larryfulkerson

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T4, Minsk
Here's an image of my troops attempting to surround Minsk prior to my taking down the city. I've got 30.9K German Heavy Rifle Squads assigned and 3.3K on hand so things are going well so far. All but three aircraft units are green. By the time I get to the end of the turn most of the aircraft are yellow and resting but green again at the start of next turn. I start the turn with all the bombers on CS but toward the end of the turn, around round 5 or so I'll switch a lot of the bombers to INT. I'm not sure what utility I'm getting out of the INT missions but it seems like the thing to do toward the end of the turn.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 7/31/2020 4:05:53 AM

larryfulkerson

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T4, Front Lines
This is what it looks like so far. I've almost cleared out the mountanious areas down south of Soviet troops and now my troops can race to the SE to try to get to the Crimea before it's fortified in any way. Up north I'm assaulting the Soviet defenders in the port city of Riga. Just SE of Riga I have used engineers to leap across the river and race to the NE. I'm trying to get to Pskov before most of the Soviet units can get there so I can trap them on the east side of the Dneper River. I'd like to try the left hook this time, see if I can't isolate Leningrad from further reinforcements, make it easier to take down in the long run.

Minsk
My troopers are just now starting to curl around the city of Minsk to surround it and cut if off any external supply source. That way all the equipment that is destroyed won't make it into the Soviet equipment pools. Every little bit helps. I'm hoping to be able to take the city hex by T5. The next goal will be Smolensk.

Kiev
My troops down south are pressing toward Kiev with the goal of destroying as many Soviet units as possible. I've been resting the Romanian planes at Ploesti but I've moved OKH to Warsaw to encourage the resting planes. I've also shipped in three more HQ units to help encourage the planes that OKH can't quite reach. I anticipate a lot of resting planes over the course of the next few turns. I have eleven bombers resting at Warsaw currently. There's room for 12. I'm obviously in need of more aircraft resting areas with a dedicated HQ unit. I forsee times when almost all the planes are resting. I'm going to establish at least four aircraft resting cities for now and then build more as they are needed. I anticipate using Minsk as one of them.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/31/2020 4:07:08 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/1/2020 1:58:29 AM

larryfulkerson

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T6, Pskov
Here we are at the beginning of T6 and my units have leapt across the Dvina River and are headed for Pskov as fast as they can go. I have the smaller units in the backfield converting hexes as fast as they can and they are having trouble keeping up with the conversion task. It's worthwhile to do it because I've already found at least two Soviet units left behind in my backfield. I need to get one of my river boats up here to convert the river hexes. That will make the map look better. My Ju-87's are just on the verge of being able to reach the Soviet BB's near Leningrad. The Finns have one Stuka squadron but it's worn out and tired in the effort to sink some Soviet ships and was successful in killing one Soviet naval unit including one BB, one CA, one CL and 6 DD's. Now there's only one Soviet naval unit left to kill. The main supply route is the rail along the coast that goes through Riga heading north. Supply levels are great so far.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/1/2020 6:10:58 AM

larryfulkerson

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T6, Orsha
I need to get across the Dnieper River to continue the advance without pause and I'm already starting to capture some crossings in the south of this image. I've had no difficulty in keeping the rails repaired all the way up to the front so far. The AS levels are 47 Axis and 5 Soviet. All the aircraft are in the green except for two bombers who are yellow and resting. Most of the land combat units ( LCU's ) are in the green. So far so good.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/1/2020 6:11:16 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/4/2020 3:12:59 AM

larryfulkerson

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T8, Narva
T8 already and I'm in the process of clearing the peninsula of Soviet units so that none will exist in my backfield. I've forced my way through Pskov and I'm moving into the Leningrad area with just a few units so far. I need to rail some more troops up this way to man the front line that I'm going to have to build before too long. I expect a lot more Soviet units to confront me in this AO. I'm way behind on the conversion of hexes to my side. The supply levels are outstanding so the advance can continue.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/4/2020 3:13:12 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/4/2020 4:24:32 AM

larryfulkerson

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I do a save-game every 15 minutes or so and I just now got through doing one and the thought occured to me that somebody might want to have a copy of the game as it is right now to check out all the dialogs and generally look things over. So I zipped up the T8-turn save game file and attached it here below.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/4/2020 11:23:22 PM

larryfulkerson

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T9, Smolensk
This is what it looks like around Smolensk right now. I'm getting across the river and are slowly pushing the Soviets to the east. The supply lines are close so the supply levels are okie dokie. The Soviets seem to have thinned out toward the bottom of this image but I think they are there but I just can't see them yet. I'm going to need a lot more troops than what's here already. I have no idea where they are going to come from. I'd like to back the Panzers out of the front lines and use them for the Reserve if that's possible. All the aircraft but about a dozen of the bombers are green and I've got 33.3K German Heavy Rifle Squads assigned and 2.6 on hand which is just fine. It's 20Jul41 which is still early yet. Moscow may be within reach before the winter season sets in.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/5/2020 5:29:52 AM

larryfulkerson

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T9, Pskov
I've got my recon units way out in front and I've forced my way through Pskov by destroying the Soviet defender and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of resistance all the way up to the surburbs of Leningrad. I need a lot more troops up here to man the front line that I'm going to have to build here. I have no idea where they are going to come from. I've been including some CS in each of my land attacks and any bombers left over are tasked to bombard any Soviet arty that they can reach. The Soviets have some really tremendous arty units with lots of tubes. Those that can't reach any arty are tasked to bomb enemy HQ units in an effort to drive them into reorg. There's a lot of large gaps in this image and that's slightly unsettling.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/5/2020 5:30:03 AM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/5/2020 7:43:15 PM

larryfulkerson

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T10, Smolensk
This is the Smolensk area right now. I've surrounded a large number of German units and I'm slowly making them go away. I'm optimistic about making some progress in this area over the next several turns.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/5/2020 7:46:10 PM >

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/6/2020 4:35:19 PM

larryfulkerson

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T10, Odessa
Here's what it looks like in the Odessa area. I'm bombarding the Odessa defenders and running probing attacks but it's not getting a lot of Soviet losses so it's going to take a while to take down the city. I need to move some more RR arty tubes down here to expedite the process a little. I'm approaching the entrance to the Crimea and will soon force my way through the bottleneck.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/7/2020 5:07:33 AM

larryfulkerson

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T11, Front Lines
Here's what it looks like right now. The Finns have fought their way to the stop line just north of Leningrad. It cost them 1541 Rifle Squads to get there, they have 5K still assigned and 78 on hand and they are making 27 of them each turn. The Finns are doing okie dokie. The Germans forced their way through the Narva bottleneck and are approaching Leningrad from the west. Meanwhile a rather large gap has developed in my lines and I need to fill that with some troops pretty soon. I don't know where the troops are going to come from. I may have to start breaking units down to get enough warm bodies to stand a front line. Well, a light screen if the truth be known. Broken down units don't have a lot of stamina. All the aircraft are green except for two bombers and two fighters who are yellow/resting.

Battle of Smolensk
There's a terrific battle going on over the city of Smolensk. I'm going to try to surround the city first and THEN take it down if possible. Further south a bit I'm approaching Bryansk and the river and rail junctions there. Plus there's two airfields there that I need going forward.

Battle of Kiev
I've gotten across the river in the area north of Kiev near Chernigov and I'm advancing slowly to the SE to get into a position where I can surround the Soviet units on the east side of the river south of Kiev and destroy them. This will not be a short-term project. I'm fighting over the river crossings south of Kiev but so far no joy. The Rumanians, Hungarians, Italians, and the Slovs are helping me clear out the open area on the west side of the Dneper river.

Battle for The Crimea
I've arrived at Kherson too early in that I don't have enough troops to follow up any breakthroughs at the bottlenecks. I'm planning on stripping off some divisions clearing the open area and aim them south at the Crimea. Especially the 11th Army that's operating in the area. Odessa is a small problem right now. I've been bombarding with RR arty ( only three units ) and I need to rail some more RR arty down here to speed the take down a bit. I need to take down Sevastopol by 04Dec41 to free up the Bulgarians but it's only 27July41 right now so I think there may be enough time to do that still.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/9/2020 7:38:45 PM

larryfulkerson

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T12, Kiev
I've been assaulting the defenders at Kiev and have made some progress and it looks like I'll soon own Kiev. Losses have been medium to heavy in my attacks so I'm glad that a lot of the process is already done. I've gotten across the river north of Kiev and will soon have some German troops on the west side of Kiev. Elmer is in the habit of posting troops along the riverbank just to prevent me from using engineers to leap across the river between river crossings and I'd like to trap those Soviet units and kill them before they escape to the east, deeper into Russia. About a third of the aircraft are yellow because this is round 5 of turn 12 and I've been using the aircraft to support my attacks. The AS levels are 43 Axis and 21 Soviet and the air losses meter says 37 Axis losses and 187 Soviet losses. So the air war is heating up slowly. Supply isn't much of a problem anywhere on the map so far. I'm roughly on schedule I think.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/9/2020 8:03:01 PM

larryfulkerson

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Bryansk
I've arrived in the vicinity of Bryansk and I'm moving units so as to try to surround it before I take it down. Depending on the given terrain it's sometimes not easy to do that. Soviet resistance varies between light and medium in this AO so far. The number of troops I have on hand near here is really low and I need to ship more troops this way to have more boots on the ground. There's more gaps in my lines than I'm comfortable with in this area and I feel like it's going to bite me in the A$$ if I don't do something about it.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/10/2020 5:11:41 AM

larryfulkerson

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T13, Kiev
A lot of troops are headed this way to try to make a gigantic bulge in the Soviet front lines and push them to the east as fast as possible to try to gain a lot of ground before the mud season arrives. Clearance of the wide open area continues and I'm getting closer to D-town and Z-town. I forced my way across one river crossing just south of Kiev but it's only a start and needs to be developed a lot more before a comfortable toe-hold can exist. I find that I'm in a slight hurry to get to turn 14 and I don't think I'm superstitious or anything like that. I'll just feel a lot more comfortable when I get to T14.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/10/2020 2:24:54 PM

larryfulkerson

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T13, Leningrad
Progress is slow but it's progressing to the east. The Soviet units are split between the attack from the west and at the stop line above Leningrad and are therefore sparce on their lines. I've got plans to try to trap all the Leningrad area defenders and destroy them before they can escape to the east, deeper into Russia. I've got plans to strip off the Panzer divisions up here and send them south into the better terrain, the more open terrain. I may have to replace them if they are on the front line and I have no idea where the replacement division will come from. I would guess that at least 85% of the Infantry Divisions are employed at the front and the rest of them are moving that way. I've got lots of gaps in my front line and that's unsettling. As soon as they get caught up in converting hexes in my backfield, I'm going to use the small AT, MP, etc. units to construct a light screen at the very least. And I've got to do something about establishing some local reserves every 10 hexes or so along the front lines. I'd like to be able to use the Panzer divisions as the strategic reserve. This is round 7 of T13 and about half of the bombers are yellow/resting. I've lost 11.8K German Heavy Rifle Squads so far, I have 32.3K still assigned and 1.6K on hand so losses are light and the force is still in a go for for the gold state.

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/11/2020 10:05:56 AM

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Great Reports. I am trying right now your scenario D21 as German against Russian AI.
One question: how do you organize yourself to be sure that you have moved all your units each turn? AFAIK there is no game indicator/key that pops-up to show the remaining unmoved units...

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RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/11/2020 10:11:38 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

One question: how do you organize yourself to be sure that you have moved all your units each turn?

I use the OOB to determine who has yet to use up all the MP's it has. When you get a list of units at the far right side is the column of MP's remaining and I go down the column looking for all the non-zero MP units and move them next.

My usual routine is to move all the units in OOB order starting with OKH. Right now I have OKH parked at Minsk next to the airfields to encourage the resting planes. I started out using Warsaw as the aircraft depot because of all the airfields clustered there but that seems too far away from the action now so I'm moving the depot to Minsk.

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(in reply to fulcrum28)

Post #: 28

RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/11/2020 4:42:50 PM

fulcrum28

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
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thanks a lot for your reply. I understand.
Btw, I replied to Curtis related a new feature, and I cited your suggestion.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4869825&mpage=1&key=�

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(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 29

RE: D21 using the Red Green Yellow rule - 8/11/2020 7:54:01 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
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T14, Bryansk
Here's what it looks like in the Bryansk area right now. I'm on the verge of capturing the city proper and I'm trying to surround the Soviet defenders and kill them. I have my recon units way out in front to convert the roads and rails and to find the enemy units that aren't visible yet. There's lots of gaps in the front lines in this area but I'm okay with that because the Soviet units are so sparse. I'm approaching an area that has tank terrain in it. Clear terrain without any impediments to the full movement of AFV's so that lots of progress can theoritically be made by tanks and other fast movers. I'm going to see if I can't move at least one Panzer division down here to take advantage of the terrain. I've got 33.2K German Heavy Rifle Squads assigned and a little less than 400 on hand. Losses are 12.3K and so I'm calling that light losses. There are 954 Me-109's assigned, 203 on-hand, and I've lost 73 of them and so I'm calling that light losses as well. I'm going to start making some FW-190A/D's ( making 23 per turn )in T141. That seems like an awfully long way away. All the aircraft are in the green except for one Finn fighter unit that's yellow/resting.