I need to right size my mechanized forces.

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I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/17/2020 5:54:09 AM

mek42

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Upstate (Central) NY
Status: offline

I have a tendancy towards "big, tough, expensive, few" for models. In 40k I played Space Marines. In Shadow Empire I'm making APCs with 100 mm armor and hvy diesel engines and wonder why my logistics and fuel usage are hard to manage when I start going mechanized.

How do you decide where to design a vehicle on the big and shiny --- affordable curve?

Post #: 1

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/17/2020 9:43:08 AM

Culthrasa

Posts: 189
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: offline

Mostly only after i've researched 60+ in the "fuel efficiency" linear tech...
Last night I had a hvy tank taking 290 fuel down to 69 fuel... the second one will probably see action.. the first one.. NOWAY :))

(in reply to mek42)

Post #: 2

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/17/2020 10:02:59 AM

Jdane

Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline

Didn't you sort of answer your question yourself?

I used to think biggest is best was a no brainer in armored vehicle design, until I ran into logistics issues too. Now I'm experimenting with how light I can get away with, and have APCs that do no require much more fuel than trucks (which I have yet to field and try out for good).

It all depends on how much fuel you can produce, and how much you can move. Early game, when logistics is all trucks, I'll try and stay cheap, but later when rail is used to move the bulk of the supplies from the SHQ to the city closest to the front, whose truck station is only dedicated to bring them to the troops, I might go with heavier, fuel expensive vehicles.

It also depends on who you're facing with: minors and independents are much easier nuts to crack than majors equipped with advanced techs. I like my armor to be at least as protected as my enemy's infantry.

But if after I run a whole mechanized brigade 100 Action Points forward I need to park units along the road for two turns to protect the supply line while the fuel tanks are replenished, I decide I should have gone more on the affordable side of the curve.

And as Culthrasa said, technology is important too. For example, polymer armour is lighter than steel for the same amount of protection.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 7/17/2020 10:10:03 AM >

(in reply to Culthrasa)

Post #: 3

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/17/2020 11:09:13 AM

Hazard151

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline

Another option is to simply limit the number of mechanized forces you have available and swapping them for motorized or leaving them foot mobile.

Motorizing forces effectively doubles your army's combat power IIRC, as foot mobile forces suffer a 50% combat power penalty. That said, my response to 'my armies guzzle fuel at insane rates' is 'build up a massive fuel production infrastructure and the storage to support it', so...

(in reply to Jdane)

Post #: 4

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/17/2020 11:27:27 AM

demiare

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

For me 50mm is a good starting armor for APC if I'm planning to use them early (read = have few oil wells or a lot of ruins nearby).

(in reply to Hazard151)

Post #: 5

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/24/2020 7:44:16 PM

Remington427

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/28/2020
Status: offline

My APCs have the bare minimum armor available, 5mm. I use them more for encirclement mobility, and their machine guns are more than useful in actually supressing enemies before attacks begin. Once I research Polymer armor, I upgrade them to 25mm polymer armor, but no more than that.

I am curious about fuel efficiency linear techs though. Do you need to redesign a vehicle to make use of the efficiency tech, or does it retroactively effect existing vehicles?

(in reply to demiare)

Post #: 6

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/24/2020 8:04:44 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

Gotta redesign. go to MNG and models and see the tech on each model.

(in reply to Remington427)

Post #: 7

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/25/2020 2:14:34 AM

gmsitton

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Remington427

My APCs have the bare minimum armor available, 5mm. I use them more for encirclement mobility, and their machine guns are more than useful in actually supressing enemies before attacks begin. Once I research Polymer armor, I upgrade them to 25mm polymer armor, but no more than that.

I am curious about fuel efficiency linear techs though. Do you need to redesign a vehicle to make use of the efficiency tech, or does it retroactively effect existing vehicles?

Electric engines are in the research block below polymer armor. Start planning for that once you get polymer armor by building energy production.

(in reply to Remington427)

Post #: 8

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/25/2020 3:34:55 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

My favourite "Mechanized" force is the light tanks. Best Anti-Personal Gun and armor. Smallest engine that still allows it to move even on a bad design roll.
Light Tanks still got decent scouting.
If you are playing the beta, armor has a massive impact on survivability (via the finally working callibre modifier). If the enemy has no AT weapons, these tanks will just roll over them, taking no hits or casualties. Even attacking into poor terrain (like ruins with -50% and heavily entrenched Infantry), they will be murderous.

I do not use APC's. Or Motorized units for that mater. They cost twice the Manpower, at not nearly twice the combat power.
The MG on the APC is not a good weapon, really. It is more a defensive weapon. But the APC itself is weak on defense too.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/25/2020 3:35:36 PM >

(in reply to gmsitton)

Post #: 9

RE: I need to right size my mechanized forces. - 7/25/2020 4:28:54 PM

Berks

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/18/2020
Status: offline

I agree with zgrssd. Light tanks will carry a game vs majors. Ideally you can 'field train' them vs a minor or free folk first, and design a couple of models, add on side skirts, and start adding the Applied Science council techs. Cluster Bombs will also dramatically increase the number of casualties you inflict on infantry targets.

Usually by the time I get to the III model, it is 2-3 times more powerful than the original design.

I have found my mark I and II Light Tanks take the occasional casualty vs Majors early on. It could be due to the odd RPG unit mixed in, defence bonuses on AI formations, and/or the fact AI has a 20% combat bonus. Not a big issue, just make a few more

Generally, it seems best to stick to a couple of unit types and constantly re-iterate the design over time, so you can make the most of field testing bonuses.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10