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RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod

 
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RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 12/4/2019 7:53:48 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		That is certainly possible. I did the the Community Naval Mod and that is very doable.

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SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
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Post #: 31
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 12/11/2019 10:03:20 AM   
samspackman


Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		TBH after spending 100+ hours making just this map over several months and posting it up here I'm kind of done with it for now. Other than some of the smaller South Eastern pacific atolls the map is pretty much complete. People are welcome to use it as they want.

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Post #: 32
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 1/31/2020 1:28:50 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 5199
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for putting this together samspackman, finally had a chance to fully check out the map and it is very impressive work to say the least

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Post #: 33
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 2/26/2020 3:17:00 AM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Welp, I've been trying to hammer out a workable playable map out of this...

So, with all due respect towards samspacksman (piecing together coastlines is a job for a total masochist, putting a typical mega jigsaw puzzle together to be child's play by comparison), but he may not have been aware of some issues:

1. He added map tags for all the towns and cities, but didn't input them into the actual city properties. OK, took me all weekend, but that's done at least.

2. Unfortunately cities in SC are not ports-ports are an extra attachment you can stick onto a sea space which has at least one bit of land somewhere...

3. Alas I discovered that ports CANNOT be put onto a 100% water space. I'm not sure why that is [Hubert?], but to put a port next to a city in the right spot I often have to add a nonexistent tiny island first, then drop the port on top of that. All depends on how the coast in a given area was drawn.

4. Not entirely happy with some areas, most notably Manila & Bataan-he put the fortress 1 hex N of the peninisula in question since NO land installations can go on 51%+ sea spaces, but a larger peninsula would block ocean access to Manila [and obliterate the port I currently have there].

After all that it would be all downhill, copying all of the appropriate scripts from vanilla while changing any relevant map coordinates etc.

1st alpha will likely have a LOT of ships, probably everything down to and including the CA level.

Turn length will likely be 10 days alternating, ship movement curtailed a bit, tech tweaked downward likely to 3 & 2 [1 & 2 chits], reduced total investment caps.

Communist China will be bigger than in stock, w/ larger force pool to match.

The Kongos will become battlecruisers, which they basically were, no matter what the IJN may have called them.

The Yamatos/Iowas & Montanas/Lions/[& H class if this was a world scenario] will all go into the Dreadnought slot.

Not sure if I should make CVE's into CVL's [swap ASW for Naval tech], will have to think about that. Maybe IJN units will be CVL's, since they had no ASW doctrine, while the US did.

Japanese cruisers will get +1 to their attack ratings, to reflect the power of the Long Lance. Other country-specific tweaks will also undoubtedly follow.

I'll probably lose my mind before it is done. But stay tuned...

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 2/26/2020 3:43:48 AM >

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 34
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 2/26/2020 2:55:16 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Fixed Manila & Bataan.

Manila

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 2/26/2020 2:56:14 PM >

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 35
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/2/2020 9:47:20 AM   
samspackman


Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		Awesome work Elessar - I’ll freely admit there are still a lot of things about the editor I don’t know about/stuffed up!

Glad it can be of some use still despite that! Yeah the Philippines was tricky. The entire coast line was actually done by hand from scratch since I only found out about the map generator tool when I was about 50% done!

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 36
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/6/2020 1:23:09 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		I'll have some new screenies uploaded this weekend (I found out that one can make cool-looking atolls by putting a "lake" on an island hex [lake vs. "major" lake], land units & cities/towns can still exist there), just want to throw this out there...

WI I put in EVERY warship from CL's on up, but also including individual submarines + smattering of DD hunter/killer groups? Would we have a massive amount of carnage on the 1st turn of total war, followed by most ships laid up for the rest of the game because it would be too expensive to repair them all? Would the micromanagement become a hell? Would the AI be able to handle it (tons of new AI scripts to be written, yay)? Or a typical person's system?

If I gave a lot of MPP's for repairs and rebuilds would a clever player just dump them all into tech and land units? Thus requiring me to make ships cheaper to compensate? Can I adjust what the different tech levels of Production Tech do %-wise to reduce build/repair costs?

Am definitely taking a look at the Naval War Mod's changes too.

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 3/6/2020 1:26:43 PM >

(in reply to samspackman)
Post #: 37
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 3:35:25 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		I handled the repairs in the Naval Mods by giving different costs and build times to the various task forces. Only Screening and Recon TF can rebuild at a fraction of their original costs. This simulates how many of these units were made and lost. Hundreds of destroyers were lost in combat whereas very few capital ships were. The Screening TF Recon TF are easy to shatter but inexpensive and fast to rebuild. Whole task forces were not destroyed just damaged enough to make them inoperable. So they went back to base, got replacements and sallied forth again.

Capital ships are a different matter they are costly and slow to build and cannot be rebuilt.

The main changes in the Naval Mods is the virtual elimination of the hit and run tactic. Because of the addition of naval zones of control, if your opponent (including the AI) uses their Screening TF properly it is virtually impossible to attack a task force that is being protected and then have enough movement points to run away. You will take your lumps like any surface task force that was able to get close to another task force did. In addition, all TF have a high defensive evasion rating which simulates just how rare it was for task forces to actually intercept each other at sea. For example, a Fast Carrier Task Force has a defensive evasion rating of 70%. This means that even if you can get close to a Fast CV TF you still only have a 30% chance of having a successful attack. As history has shown you just didn't get many if any chances to confront any enemy Task Force on the high seas. Sneaking up on a Fast Carrier Task Force was virtually impossible.




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_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 38
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 3:36:30 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		two






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 39
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 3:37:11 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		three




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 40
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 3:38:06 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		four




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 41
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 9:30:43 PM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 638
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		I've been playing these naval mods and have yet to see a bombardment task force.

What class are they?

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SeaMonkey

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Post #: 42
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/7/2020 10:40:15 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Aye Hairog have fully digested your version notes. As you intimated, my philosophy here would run counter to yours, as the individual ship would be king, and cannot be replaced easily. But I am in general agreement about the silliness of the hit & run tactic.

The map here seems big enough to have all those ships running around (was inspired by World in Flames' Cruiser mod), tho I'm not sure about the CL's still.

In any event since I am currently redrawing many of the islands (both for accuracy & aesthetics) it will still be awhile before I move on to modding the mod itself. Because of the one hex per unit feature I typically have to ensure that most islands have 2 hexes (or two islands in close proximity), one for a ground unit one for an air unit.

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 43
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 3/8/2020 3:07:56 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

I've been playing these naval mods and have yet to see a bombardment task force.

What class are they?


First of all, I'm glad to hear that you are playing the mods. The more people play and hopefully enjoy the mods the better we can make them with your feedback.

The Bombardment Task Force used the old Dreadnaught slot. Like all the Task forces made up of capital ships, they are expensive and of limited use, just like real life.

Think of all the money, sweat, toil and tears nations spent on their battleships and dreadnaughts only to see them being used as floating artillery- batteries. In-game, they are expensive and slow to build. They are hard to justify and were not used very much in the stock game.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 44
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 4/2/2020 6:49:20 PM   
jsbarker702

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/15/2017
Status: offline 		Looking forward to the map and mod. Let me know when you need a play tester.

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 45
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 4/3/2020 9:48:16 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Right now seeing if I'll have enough free time (with this virus thang) to really play with it. Since I discovered how to make "atolls" out of lakes, it's been a slow slog to edit each island to my satisfaction. Also been farting with the Europe & global maps lately, trying some alternate design strategies; doing so made me notice an issue with the US CV build rates (they end up being the last unit the AI will build, virtually guaranteeing a Japanese victory).

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 4/3/2020 9:50:57 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 12:50:36 PM   
hyperstork67

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2020
Status: offline 		Hello all, I was hoping to play around with this map. The only upload I was able to find on this topic returned a "no such file" error. Is there a better link to it? Help appreciated!

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 47
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 1:53:02 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		I will likely be getting a Dropzone account in the next week, and I'll upload my revised version (ports added, names added to country lists of places). My latest playtest of World revealed all sorts of issues with the Pacific naval AI, where the bigger map here may not remedy, which kind of reduced my enthusiasm. The issue is that the basic operational/tactical ground AI is now pretty solid, but there really isn't any operational naval AI to speak of (tactical needs some work too), it's all gotta be scripted or they'll simply park their hulls in their home ports for the entire game. [tho subs will come out and move towards the nearest convoy routes]

Reducing turn lengths and thus reducing ship movement distances may bode well for human vs. human; right as the IJN now you can warp
your entire fleet to any trouble spot in one turn, two max (I may disable naval cruising as well for this reason).

(in reply to hyperstork67)
Post #: 48
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 4:36:56 PM   
hyperstork67

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2020
Status: offline 		That's great, I look forward to it. I'm happy to just play a hot seat version, as-is, if that's what you have done so far.

Full AI would be awesome, of course. Right now I'm playing vanilla as Japan only, waiting through the European turns is getting longer and longer. And even in vanilla the US seems to mostly just send subs out.

So, I wouldn't mind just the map, if the AI is going to take a long time to troubleshoot. Thanks!


(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 49
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 4:43:23 PM   
The Land

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 2/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

With the Edit Text Layer button, the same way you put 'United States' on the map. OMG, you have to go back over the entire map and add in the placenames ?!?!


There is also a tool in the Campaign settings to Replicate Resource Names to Text Layer which saves all this work!

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Post #: 50
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 11:24:18 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Of course the OP here had all the text layers labeled, but not the actual resources-it must have taken me 6 hours to copy them all over...

Quick & dirty AAR [World Scenario, Crispy's] here in posts 86, 87 & 89.

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 5/26/2020 11:30:09 PM >

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Post #: 51
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/26/2020 11:42:44 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Here ya go:

War in the Pacific AE pre-alpha

That way if my hard drive hiccups or something it isn't lost forever.

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 52
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/27/2020 12:49:42 AM   
hyperstork67

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2020
Status: offline 		Strange, dropbox keeps telling me "this file doesn't exist."

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 53
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/27/2020 2:13:45 PM   
hyperstork67

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2020
Status: offline 		Hmm, I can get the Fall Weiss mod just fine, but it says nothing is there when I try to download the pacific map.

(in reply to hyperstork67)
Post #: 54
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/27/2020 4:57:36 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		I am a complete newb on this site, not helped by a goofed up interface which doesn't clearly explain the options available to you. It says the file is private, but there is no apparent way to set it to be public. It may demand 20 bucks a month for the privelege of making it public.

Trying Google Drive...

(in reply to hyperstork67)
Post #: 55
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/27/2020 7:41:41 PM   
hyperstork67

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2020
Status: offline 		That is a very cool map! Thanks for sharing.

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 56
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 5/28/2020 1:06:55 AM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		De nada.

(in reply to hyperstork67)
Post #: 57
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 7/26/2020 12:11:12 PM   
steelwarrior

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 8/23/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks man - would you mind making a map for the world wide campaign? That would be great...

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 58
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 7/26/2020 5:06:12 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Dood, I am currently artfully crafting the Euro 20 km map, a task that will likely take me close to a year just to get to the alpha testing stage. I decided to not make a scenario out of this one mainly because of issues with the AI & fleets would mean that it would pretty much be human vs. human only. I hated cheating the AI-only players out there (such as myself), but the amount of scripting that would be required to just give the AI a chance against a human's fleets would be mind-boggling. The Euro AI is much more "mature" and simply requires that they be copied over and adjusted for the new map coordinates & turn lengths.

The Pacific Map itself here however is much closer to completion-some islands need terrain/towns/ports, and while I've put the names in for many of the existing installations, some still need to be inputted. But someone who was motivated could probably get an alpha up and running after 2-3 months of work. If that was the case I'd happily collaborate with them on it.

I did use the pic ---> map conversion tool awhile back using a whole world map, but the resulting scale was still a bit coarser than the existing Euro map's scale; if I were to give that another shot I'd have to enlarge the Old World and shrink the Americas & polar regions, while also trying to decide whether to modify (junk) the Mercator projection that excessively distorts said polar regions.

Found an old thread where someone said they somehow got a map bigger than the default limits working-not sure how, nor if it could be loaded into the editor. He didn't elaborate, and the topic was quietly dropped. <shrug>

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 7/26/2020 5:16:56 PM >

(in reply to steelwarrior)
Post #: 59
RE: War in the Pacific: AE - Map Mod - 7/27/2020 12:48:17 PM   
steelwarrior

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 8/23/2011
Status: offline 		Hey thanks for the feedback - really looking forward to the Europe map - much success and thanks for your effort...

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 60
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