Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

'Major incident' declared in British city of Manchester to tackle COVID-19

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-health-coronavirus-britain-man-idUSKBN24Y0NU

Where was it first known? Why, Wuhan China!

OK, we know that Wuhan was the first place actually reporting it as a new virus. But calling it the Wuhan Virus plays into the narrative that they created the virus there and intentionally let it spread to the rest of the world. Let's not get into those conspiracy theories.

I only quoted what was in the article and copied the url. I will not tell people what to call it. I just was reminding people where it was first detected.

Oh, so "I only quoted" and "I was just reminding people" are the same? Your rhetoric is slipping.

I love how after any post where you call people names you then spam a bunch of posts together with anything to cover your tracks so the moderators won't notice. Very clever.

On the more relevant information here, Manchester and some areas in NW England have been locked down again. It seems the UK is now doing what is necessary early on and trying to stop runaway spikes in any area showing growth. The numbers aren't too bad yet according to what we know, which is good. Much less than some rural counties in the states. (Only using for comparison of data and response, not pointing any fingers).

According to a rolling seven-day rate of new cases of Covid-19 compiled by the PA news agency, Oldham has the second highest rate of new cases per 100,000 people out of all local authorities in England.

The seven-day rate in Oldham jumped from 41.6 to 62.8, with 148 new cases – behind only Blackburn with Darwen.

Other areas reporting notable week-on-week rises in Greater Manchester include Trafford (up from 31.3 to 38.1, with 90 new cases); Manchester (up from 18.6 to 34.3, with 188 new cases); Tameside (up from 12.9 to 28.4, with 64 new cases) and Stockport (up from 13.7 to 22.6, with 66 new cases).

In my home state of Oregon some rural counties have ben rapidly increasing. Umatilla county has 58 per 100,000 right now. That's high desert farming and ranching country.

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Whole cities and towns to be tested in case of local Covid outbreak using 90 minute procedure
The tests will be used to check hospital and care home staff and patients, but there are plans for more than a million tests a day by winter

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I post article with information about Manchester and you call that spamming yet you turn around and post more information about Manchester. So you are a self admitted SPAMMER.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It appears you two have differing viewpoints you want to bring forward. Fine - unless something is really bad info, would you please just let it go and not challenge each other's every post?

I appreciate your inputs to help me understand why various groups of people are 'coming from' on their reactions to the virus. It appears that various cultural factors interact with the scientific info to give differing responses and to those groups, their responses are valid. We will not get to common approaches to the virus without being able to separate out the cultural memes. So let's hear from all without shutting them down on minor points.

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With lockdowns due to the coronavirus curbing air pollution globally, sulfur deficiency could become even more acute in the U.S. farm belt, soil scientists said, although the effect will likely pale in comparison to gradually reduced emissions over the last 30 years.

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"We all know that alcohol changes your judgment," he (Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam ) said. "You just don't care as much about social distancing after you've had a couple of drinks. That's when the virus gets spread."

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

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Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I agree. His last post and log in information:

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Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

I hope that those individuals are ecstatic about driving him an others away. Political censorship.

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

Know anyone who's been on a ventilator yet? Might want to ask them what they think rather than dismissing it out of hand.

I don't give a shyte. Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I agree. His last post and log in information:

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Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

I hope that those individuals are ecstatic about driving him an others away. Political censorship.

Oh please, spare us the hagiography.

Why, feeling guilty?

Nor was it political censorship - his viewpoint was subjected to robust critique and found wanting.

Yes, it was political censorship. The constant denigration of sources plus the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die." Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

Some of the discussions on the previous thread would be interesting to revisit given how things have panned out.

In person?

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I don't give a shyte.

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Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

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Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

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Why, feeling guilty?

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Yes, it was political censorship.

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The constant denigration of sources

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the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die."

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Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

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In person?

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I don't give a shyte.

That much is obvious.

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Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

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Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Logical inconsistency detected.

You need to study logic again.

If the logic for returning those with possible Covid-19 to nursing homes was driven by need to preserve healthcare capacity for a wider outbreak, is that not a case where the needs of the many are outweighing the needs of the few?

That just exposed more people to the Wuhan China originating SARS-2 corona virus which caused more people to become infected with the SARS-2 corona virus developing CoVid-19. But then they died which helped lower the costs of taking care of those individuals.

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Why, feeling guilty?

No, just find your search for a martyr funny and quite pathetic.

You should feel guilty. I have no need to search for a martyr.

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Yes, it was political censorship.

Right. How? I mean in practical terms. I'm not a Matrix mod. They've not been involved, as far as I am aware.

In practical terms, the verbal abuse of the person and the person's sources.

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The constant denigration of sources

Critique of evidence presented is always a part of any worthwhile debate. The quality of sources presented was quite variable and actual engagement was evidence was fairly limited.

Not when it becomes personal.

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the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die."

As has been discussed earlier in this thread, we've a pretty solid idea of what has worked and what didn't.

You are badly mistaken. There was no solid idea of what has worked and what did not. Even now, I doubt if the best treatments are being used.

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Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

The advantages inherent in a national healthcare system in the context of a pandemic should be obvious.

That is purely political.

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In person?

Preferably not until travel is safe again. Electronic mediums work just fine.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

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Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Logical inconsistency detected.

If the logic for returning those with possible Covid-19 to nursing homes was driven by need to preserve healthcare capacity for a wider outbreak, is that not a case where the needs of the many are outweighing the needs of the few?

At least from a UK viewpoint that decision appears to have cost far more lives proportionately than any of the other decisions taken by US politicians that we might disagree with. I do have some sympathy for our politicians/scientists/health officials getting spooked by what happened in the hospitals in Lombardy but in hindsight it was a colossal error

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Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

The advantages inherent in a national healthcare system in the context of a pandemic should be obvious.

I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

When people discount the information presented because they do not like the source's viewpoint, then that is political especially when the person is directly or indirectly attacked.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


Logical inconsistency detected.

You need to study logic again.

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That just exposed more people to the Wuhan China originating SARS-2 corona virus which caused more people to become infected with the SARS-2 corona virus developing CoVid-19.

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But then they died which helped lower the costs of taking care of those individuals.

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You should feel guilty. I have no need to search for a martyr.

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Not when it becomes personal.

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You are badly mistaken. There was no solid idea of what has worked and what did not. Even now, I doubt if the best treatments are being used.

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Too bad that you do not want to meet in person. Especially where I live . . .

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.

That's my point though - so far at least those cost concerns haven't resulted in higher death rates than those continental European countries. In the UK where there are precisely zero cost concerns from seeking medical attention we have one of the worst death rates in the world.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.

It does not matter about the cost, people still receive care.

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Overall, 16.9% of Americans report at least 1 financial barrier.

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But your admission here about the economy is a change. More problems will come from the economy than this illness. You should research the Hong Kong flu, the numbers and how everything was shut down - or not.

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

When people discount the information presented because they do not like the source's viewpoint, then that is political especially when the person is directly or indirectly attacked.

I'm very reluctant to criticise somebody who is not here to defend himself. But I think it is fair to say that CR was hardly backwards in coming forwards about his own views of the media and the extent to which they could be trusted. From my own perspective it felt very much like he would frequently dismiss any information that didn't fit the 'everything's going to be fine' narrative as being hype from an untrustworthy and politicised media. That's as far as I'll go on him - like I said earlier whatever the differences we might have on an internet forum it is much more important to me that all is well with him and his family.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.

That's my point though - so far at least those cost concerns haven't resulted in higher death rates than those continental European countries. In the UK where there are precisely zero cost concerns from seeking medical attention we have one of the worst death rates in the world.

US Governmental healthcare. Look up the VA healthcare systems and its problems. Enough said there.

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

When people discount the information presented because they do not like the source's viewpoint, then that is political especially when the person is directly or indirectly attacked.

That's going off on a tangent though? If your point is that politics came into a 'no politics thread' then yeah, clearly that happened - from all sides. I don't see where the jump is from that to censorship though.

I'm very reluctant to criticise somebody who is not here to defend himself. But I think it is fair to say that CR was hardly backwards in coming forwards about his own views of the media and the extent to which they could be trusted. From my own perspective it felt very much like he would frequently dismiss any information that didn't fit the 'everything's going to be fine' narrative as being hype from an untrustworthy and politicised media. That's as far as I'll go on him - like I said earlier whatever the differences we might have on an internet forum it is much more important to me that all is well with him and his family.

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A steep decline in California’s coronavirus infection rate announced this week by Gov. Gavin Newson may not be accurate, according to the state’s top public health official who said Tuesday that the state’s data system used to process COVID-19 test results is marred with technical issues.