Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

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ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

The RAN concept is that "Ships fight Ships, and their crew is a team working together".

So, they did not do VCs in WW2. Particularly, they were not going to hand them to bridge officers when the ratings down a few decks did most of the dying.

The RN awarded some VCs - to FAA pilots such as Eugene Esmonde & Hammy Gray, or RMC soldiers. They also gave some for gallantry on ships in combat, which the RAN did not. Famously one of those was awarded to LCdr Gerry Roope, on the recommendation of the Captain of the RMS Admiral Hipper, Kapitan Helmuth Heye.

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ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I fear it could open a flood of equally deserving awards, as well as the above mentioned attitudes by the RAN to handing out awards, the Australian Government seemed to "ration" VC's to a small number per campaign.
Its often said that Tom Derrick should been awarded a second,maybe a third VC for his actions at Alamein, Sattleberg & Tarakan. Instead he died in May 1945 with the VC and a Distinguished Conduct Medal.

Too hand out too many VC would lower the value of the award.

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ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

The RAN concept is that "Ships fight Ships, and their crew is a team working together".

So, they did not do VCs in WW2. Particularly, they were not going to hand them to bridge officers when the ratings down a few decks did most of the dying.

The RN awarded some VCs - to FAA pilots such as Eugene Esmonde & Hammy Gray, or RMC soldiers. They also gave some for gallantry on ships in combat, which the RAN did not. Famously one of those was awarded to LCdr Gerry Roope, on the recommendation of the Captain of the RMS Admiral Hipper, Kapitan Helmuth Heye.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I fear it could open a flood of equally deserving awards, as well as the above mentioned attitudes by the RAN to handing out awards, the Australian Government seemed to "ration" VC's to a small number per campaign.
Its often said that Tom Derrick should been awarded a second,maybe a third VC for his actions at Alamein, Sattleberg & Tarakan. Instead he died in May 1945 with the VC and a Distinguished Conduct Medal.

Too hand out too many VC would lower the value of the award.

Nine were awarded for the battle at Rourke's Drift, if I remember correctly. But that was before there were many minor awards.

The same thing for the US Medal of Honor during the Civil War. If I remember correctly, there was a civilian woman who was awarded one, the only civilian to receive one, then the medal was restricted to military only. There was a US Marine who received two of them and should have been awarded a third one but received a different award. He was the one who told the US Marines he was with, when they were facing fire from a larger force of Germans in WWI, "Do you want to live forever!" or something like that. The Marines then left their positions, attacked, and defeated the larger German force.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Just for the record - Robert Hampton Gray was a Canadian.

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

The RAN concept is that "Ships fight Ships, and their crew is a team working together".

So, they did not do VCs in WW2. Particularly, they were not going to hand them to bridge officers when the ratings down a few decks did most of the dying.

The RN awarded some VCs - to FAA pilots such as Eugene Esmonde & Hammy Gray, or RMC soldiers. They also gave some for gallantry on ships in combat, which the RAN did not. Famously one of those was awarded to LCdr Gerry Roope, on the recommendation of the Captain of the RMS Admiral Hipper, Kapitan Helmuth Heye.

warspite1

I read that the RN had a similar outlook and there was not universal agreement on Roope's award for that very reason.

There were no small number of VC's handed out on the recommendation of German officers. One of the St Nazaire commandos was given one thanks to his adversary. Makes for a good quiz question: Which army man was awarded a VC for action an a Royal Navy ship at the behest of a German officer

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

The RAN concept is that "Ships fight Ships, and their crew is a team working together".

So, they did not do VCs in WW2. Particularly, they were not going to hand them to bridge officers when the ratings down a few decks did most of the dying.

The RN awarded some VCs - to FAA pilots such as Eugene Esmonde & Hammy Gray, or RMC soldiers. They also gave some for gallantry on ships in combat, which the RAN did not. Famously one of those was awarded to LCdr Gerry Roope, on the recommendation of the Captain of the RMS Admiral Hipper, Kapitan Helmuth Heye.

warspite1

I read that the RN had a similar outlook and there was not universal agreement on Roope's award for that very reason.

There were no small number of VC's handed out on the recommendation of German officers. One of the St Nazaire commandos was given one thanks to his adversary. Makes for a good quiz question: Which army man was awarded a VC for action an a Royal Navy ship at the behest of a German officer

Without looking it up, I am betting on an officer from the Commando Raid on a Norwegian port - or maybe it was Spitzbergen. He went into a building heavily on fire to get Intel material from the German Commander's office and succeeded. The window he went through was subject to German MG fire and his clothing was smoking hot when he exited the building. Good thing the air was damp and cold!

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I fear it could open a flood of equally deserving awards, as well as the above mentioned attitudes by the RAN to handing out awards, the Australian Government seemed to "ration" VC's to a small number per campaign.
Its often said that Tom Derrick should been awarded a second,maybe a third VC for his actions at Alamein, Sattleberg & Tarakan. Instead he died in May 1945 with the VC and a Distinguished Conduct Medal.

Too hand out too many VC would lower the value of the award.

Nine were awarded for the battle at Rourke's Drift, if I remember correctly. But that was before there were many minor awards.

The same thing for the US Medal of Honor during the Civil War. If I remember correctly, there was a civilian woman who was awarded one, the only civilian to receive one, then the medal was restricted to military only. There was a US Marine who received two of them and should have been awarded a third one but received a different award. He was the one who told the US Marines he was with, when they were facing fire from a larger force of Germans in WWI, "Do you want to live forever!" or something like that. The Marines then left their positions, attacked, and defeated the larger German force.

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It sounds like he should have received it sooner, but then the details of the ships last voyage might have become better known.

The RAN concept is that "Ships fight Ships, and their crew is a team working together".

So, they did not do VCs in WW2. Particularly, they were not going to hand them to bridge officers when the ratings down a few decks did most of the dying.

The RN awarded some VCs - to FAA pilots such as Eugene Esmonde & Hammy Gray, or RMC soldiers. They also gave some for gallantry on ships in combat, which the RAN did not. Famously one of those was awarded to LCdr Gerry Roope, on the recommendation of the Captain of the RMS Admiral Hipper, Kapitan Helmuth Heye.

warspite1

I read that the RN had a similar outlook and there was not universal agreement on Roope's award for that very reason.

There were no small number of VC's handed out on the recommendation of German officers. One of the St Nazaire commandos was given one thanks to his adversary. Makes for a good quiz question: Which army man was awarded a VC for action an a Royal Navy ship at the behest of a German officer

Without looking it up, I am betting on an officer from the Commando Raid on a Norwegian port - or maybe it was Spitzbergen. He went into a building heavily on fire to get Intel material from the German Commander's office and succeeded. The window he went through was subject to German MG fire and his clothing was smoking hot when he exited the building. Good thing the air was damp and cold!

Warspite1

No the clue was St Nazaire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Frank_Durrant