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That energy hell.. Again...

 
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That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 4:34:13 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Yeah so I'm again at that situation, must be my third time in four games, where I'm stagnating and barely managing to literally stay alive with only that 100 energy from the start. I have discovered all the other techs in that box with solar energy and power plants and really hope that those will be next. I'm fiercely fighting a major for a geyser and luckily captured a solar panel field from my mutant friends next door, which was funny. Sorry mutie neighbors!

My question is, how long is it still possible to find those two absolutely crucial techs and can they be locked out if I advance too much? I have put my national allocation at around 50% to the economic council and in the economic council 70% in discovery.

I have a world with cloud forests but toxic air and 20m monsters all over the place and in addition an extremely advanced major chosen via the world generation - I don't think it gets harder than this (ok if you choose extreme difficulty) and I love it .

EDIT: I think this is a unnecessary bottleneck that is purely based on luck and can sabotage your whole game in a way that cannot be fixed in a point where you might have spent tens on hours in it already. Vic, if you read this please fix it somehow.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 8/11/2020 4:47:52 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 4:58:12 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: offline 		Researching 3 techs in a given tech box unlocks the connected boxes for discovery. The only way to guarantee power generation tech is to stop unlocking additional tech boxes (direct everything to discovery rather than research), so your councils eventually run out of other tech to discover.

< Message edited by Soar_Slitherine -- 8/11/2020 5:00:07 PM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 2
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 5:04:37 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

Researching 3 techs in a given tech box unlocks the connected boxes for discovery. The only way to guarantee power generation tech is to stop unlocking additional tech boxes (direct everything to discovery rather than research), so your councils eventually run out of other tech to discover.


Ok thanks, did not know this!

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 3
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 8:26:03 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
EDIT: I think this is a unnecessary bottleneck that is purely based on luck and can sabotage your whole game in a way that cannot be fixed in a point where you might have spent tens on hours in it already. Vic, if you read this please fix it somehow.


No, it worse - it's intended bottleneck as technology you're receiving for discovery IS NOT RANDOM, but weighted.

I never saw solar/power first or even second technology to discover, they always among last one. As I remember similar topic - other players have same issue.

I really don't understand why we unable to start with Power Plant - my guess because lack of testing & most of testing had done on Siwa. Yes, on Siwa fuel is not issue. With some luck - on Medusa too. But most of other planets lack ability to use open-air farming so bio-fuel became very expensive solution.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 4
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 10:45:29 PM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/28/2020
Status: offline 		You'd think that testing on oil-rich planets would have resulted in Power Plants being more readily available.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 5
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/11/2020 11:12:44 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		I just started starting on Tech Level 4. No waiting for solar or fuel plant. I just start with them.

(in reply to HansLemurson)
Post #: 6
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 2:19:26 AM   
Foxador

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/5/2020
Status: offline 		I've had plenty of games where I never research solar or basic power planets yet I know how to do fusion reactors but can't make those either because of no rads to use

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 7
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 6:10:03 AM   
zuekamo

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/21/2020
Status: offline 		use tech4 in every game tho. best way to avoid this issue

(in reply to Foxador)
Post #: 8
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 4:11:10 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

I just started starting on Tech Level 4. No waiting for solar or fuel plant. I just start with them.


Probably start doing that also. Always played with epic so it takes ages. Finally got the power plant, now only the one I want most (solar panels) left as the last one . Have a huge shortage of workers and I think it's the better choice.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 9
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 4:20:00 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
Finally got the power plant, now only the one I want most (solar panels) left as the last one . Have a huge shortage of workers and I think it's the better choice.


No. In terms of workers Power Plant + Bio-fuel + Hydroponic is a best solution among "early" energy techs.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 10
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 4:22:15 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
Finally got the power plant, now only the one I want most (solar panels) left as the last one . Have a huge shortage of workers and I think it's the better choice.


No. In terms of workers Power Plant + Bio-fuel + Hydroponic is a best solution among "early" energy techs.



I also have a huge shortage on food since only domes available .. However, plenty of oil but dont want to use it yet. I kind of want to build the plant but...

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 8/12/2020 4:23:12 PM >

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 11
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 4:25:58 PM   
Falke

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxador

I've had plenty of games where I never research solar or basic power planets yet I know how to do fusion reactors but can't make those either because of no rads to use

Fixed in latest version. Demetalization plants also produce Rads now.

(in reply to Foxador)
Post #: 12
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 4:48:07 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
However, plenty of oil but dont want to use it yet. I kind of want to build the plant but...


WHY?! Power Plant level 1-2 is more then enough for all early game needs and when you will finally need more - you 100% will have enough bio-fuel / synthetic fuel.
If you already have oil then Power Plants are no-brain decision IMHO, you will get double synergy with governor - bonus oil from wells (or bonus food&oil in case of bio-fuel) in addition to bonus energy.

Solars are good when you have a lot of excess population and lacking oil sources. Or massing them when your capital will have extreme population (government stratagem <3).

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 13
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 6:22:30 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
However, plenty of oil but dont want to use it yet. I kind of want to build the plant but...


WHY?! Power Plant level 1-2 is more then enough for all early game needs and when you will finally need more - you 100% will have enough bio-fuel / synthetic fuel.
If you already have oil then Power Plants are no-brain decision IMHO, you will get double synergy with governor - bonus oil from wells (or bonus food&oil in case of bio-fuel) in addition to bonus energy.

Solars are good when you have a lot of excess population and lacking oil sources. Or massing them when your capital will have extreme population (government stratagem <3).

There are plenty of uses for Fuel that Energy can not replace. It is better to reserve fuel for that.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 14
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/12/2020 6:43:48 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo
However, plenty of oil but dont want to use it yet. I kind of want to build the plant but...


WHY?! Power Plant level 1-2 is more then enough for all early game needs and when you will finally need more - you 100% will have enough bio-fuel / synthetic fuel.
If you already have oil then Power Plants are no-brain decision IMHO, you will get double synergy with governor - bonus oil from wells (or bonus food&oil in case of bio-fuel) in addition to bonus energy.

Solars are good when you have a lot of excess population and lacking oil sources. Or massing them when your capital will have extreme population (government stratagem <3).

There are plenty of uses for Fuel that Energy can not replace. It is better to reserve fuel for that.


Too many times have my tanks stopped..

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 15
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/13/2020 9:42:55 AM   
Don_Oda

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline 		the lack of energy (and without a power plant or solar panel) is one of the fun management parts of the game - getting the solar panel in a earlier game is a toooo easy fix.
when bio fuel is the only solution - I need energy to extract water, energy to produce bio resources then a refinery to produce energy. In one of my games I was expanding to fast and suddenly my whole supply chain collapses. Fixing it was interesting to do.
As long I know the AI is playing with the same constrains I am fine with it :)

< Message edited by Don_Oda -- 8/13/2020 9:44:27 AM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 16
RE: That energy hell.. Again... - 8/14/2020 6:05:32 AM   
gmsitton

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		Weight Economic Council more toward Discovery and less toward Research might help.

(in reply to Don_Oda)
Post #: 17
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