Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

You rightly pointed out the McGuire stalled and crashed, however, I did not say McGuire was shot down, I said he was lost while dog fighting at low altitude with drop tanks still on his P-38. I will take a slight exception to airplane design versus tactics. The Japanese designed their planes to be highly maneuverable to be able to dog fight, that is design but their tactics were to fight more as individuals and not as the US and other Western air forces developed tactics with wingman, elements, finger four and the like. Japanese tried to use some of these tactics but because of the lack radios, or reliable ones, their fights soon broke into individual battles. So design and tactics are not the same thing. Tactics can make up for a design flaw, like the Thatch weave and turn Japanese aggression against itself, when American flew more rugger, armored, and armed but less maneuverable aircraft. However the P-38 was never really used in that realm as a dog fighter as a aircraft, even with a wingman could get into a turning fight with and adversary. It was designed to take advantage of high altitude diving attacks and zoom climbs and not fly defensive CAP, which would force it to stay on station and get into dog fights against far more maneuverable aircraft. It is kinda like the ME 262, it could be a very deadly opponent in the air but could not dog fight and would be at a great disadvantage if it tried. The ME 262 had about 100 MPH advantage over the P-47s and P-51Ds it faced, in the same way the P-38 had about an 100-80 MPH advantage over the Oscars and Zeros it faced. So to get the P-38 in a turning dogfight with Oscars and Zeros in capable hands, would surrender all of it's strengths and play into the hands of all the opponents strengths. Again the difference of design over tactics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Why are you surprised by a tanker convoy going north toward Abadan? It should be going far off the coast of course, but he may have overlooked setting such a course for that one. The subs he would not have known about but he should have guessed that Bombay airfield was dangerous.

EDIT: I just remembered that you can set your view to only show manually controlled TFs, so if that tanker TF was a CS or Autoconvoy one it would not show up for him.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

What is the altitude for your ASW aircraft?

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Try lower again but with a percentage of rest.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Try lower again but with a percentage of rest.

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Considering that I lose at least 150 aircraft each month on ASW/nav search that makes 50 points lost in aircraft for each 10 point sub sunk.

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A sub that has 10 DL for four weeks, being attacked 50 times or more due to being spotted each day, not moving will still do just fine attacking a convoy with 50/50 escorts/freighters and keep sitting in the same hex the next 2 weeks as I have seen way too many times already.

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ORIGINAL: gervabit

In addition to having more ships, BabesLite incorporates several database modifications that are designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to several combat modes. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

High ASW skill is fine, but remember that EXP is the great "under the hood" variable.

At any rate, I think you are generating good ASW results in reality, and that your expectations need to be managed a great deal.

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Considering that I lose at least 150 aircraft each month on ASW/nav search that makes 50 points lost in aircraft for each 10 point sub sunk.

You should tinker with rest/range settings to reduce this - that is an absurdly high rate of attrition.

quote:

A sub that has 10 DL for four weeks, being attacked 50 times or more due to being spotted each day, not moving will still do just fine attacking a convoy with 50/50 escorts/freighters and keep sitting in the same hex the next 2 weeks as I have seen way too many times already.

Related to the above point around EXP, just because attacks and hits are reported does not mean that they are actually occurring.

Out of curiosity, are you combining your ASW efforts with day/night naval search?

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ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

High ASW skill is fine, but remember that EXP is the great "under the hood" variable.

At any rate, I think you are generating good ASW results in reality, and that your expectations need to be managed a great deal.

quote:

Considering that I lose at least 150 aircraft each month on ASW/nav search that makes 50 points lost in aircraft for each 10 point sub sunk.

You should tinker with rest/range settings to reduce this - that is an absurdly high rate of attrition.

quote:

A sub that has 10 DL for four weeks, being attacked 50 times or more due to being spotted each day, not moving will still do just fine attacking a convoy with 50/50 escorts/freighters and keep sitting in the same hex the next 2 weeks as I have seen way too many times already.

Related to the above point around EXP, just because attacks and hits are reported does not mean that they are actually occurring.

Out of curiosity, are you combining your ASW efforts with day/night naval search?

Look at the sub losses of the last months, that doesn't look like good results. It's like no result at all considering there are hundreds of aircraft dedicated to ASW/navsearch.

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I have squadrons that are all exp between 75 and 85 with ASW skill of 80-90! What else?

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The rate of atrittion is not related to range/fat because neither are my squadrons fatigued nor are they flying at long range. I tell you why this is happening. Because that's how the game works. If my squadrons fly ASW and they don't ever find a sub, they don't ever lose an aircraft. As soon as you get hundreds of sightings you get hundreds of times a routine that is checking like spotted, hit, aircraft lost... I have an absurd high number of sub detections each turn which results in an absurd high number of die rolls if the aircraft that spot the subs are lost. Even if the chance of an aircraft loss is small, due to the absurd number of detections you still get 2-8 losses per day.

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Each Helen/Betty/Nell/Judy unit on ASW has at least one Jake unit in range flying navsearch. I had ASW groups with 1 DD and 3 E in the same hexes as spotted subs for weeks without anything happening and the sub was spotted or attacked by bombers each day, several times. Result? None.

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As so often in the game to me it feels like the pendulum has swung just way too far into one direction, totally nerfing ASW. If I'd used 1/4 of my aircraft on ASW the exact same way in vanilla there wouldn't be any Allied subs left. And yes, I find that absurd too but that's the pendulum at the extreme other side.