Original Supply Bases

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Original Supply Bases

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Original Supply Bases - 8/6/2003 1:09:20 AM

worr

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I have a question about how supply will be handled as compared to UV. In UV we have supply origination ports...namely Noumea and Brisbane for the Allies....Truk for the IJN.

These greatly simply supply in UV.

It would be nice to be able to reproduce these in the new game...but they would have to be somewhat mobile..moving up with your advance. For as in UV I've found you can easily outrun even those stationary supply points.

Any ideas how this will be handled in WITP?

Worr, out

Post #: 1

Supply - 8/6/2003 1:38:08 AM

mogami

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Hi, You will have to move supply yourself. However you can place a base in the Auto supply routine where ships load supply and fuel and move it without being told.

(You first place ships into routine and then assign bases)

In the smaller scenarios the bases are exactly like UV (each side has a base that is it's supply base. supply and fuel appears every turn in preset amounts)

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Post #: 2

- 8/6/2003 8:06:02 AM

Flying fortress

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[QUOTE]Hi, You will have to move supply yourself. However you can place a base in the Auto supply routine where ships load supply and fuel and move it without being told. [/QUOTE]

Do you get to set the supply/fuel amount?

ie.

-Try to keep supply @ 35k and fuel @ 40k at Rabaul at all times
-Try to keep supply @ 80k and fuel@ 100k at Singapore at all times

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Post #: 3

- 8/6/2003 3:22:00 PM

von Murrin

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Ooo... That's a great idea, FF. Now, the big question: is already in, will it be in, can it be in, or is it impractical?

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Post #: 4

- 8/6/2003 11:13:45 PM

Joel Billings

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flying fortress
[B]Do you get to set the supply/fuel amount?

ie.

-Try to keep supply @ 35k and fuel @ 40k at Rabaul at all times
-Try to keep supply @ 80k and fuel@ 100k at Singapore at all times [/B][/QUOTE]

This is not in (I think the systemtries to provide 4 times the supply need listed at the base). It's a nice idea. I don't know how practical it is but will ask.

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Post #: 5

Re: Supply - 8/7/2003 12:29:47 AM

worr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]Hi, You will have to move supply yourself. [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you mean move the original supply port?

Or move the supplies from the original supply port?

In other words, what are the supply ports that allow for unlimited fuel, supply and non malaria? And can they be moved?

Worr, out

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Post #: 6

Re: Re: Supply - 8/7/2003 1:07:36 AM

Joel Billings

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by worr
[B]Do you mean move the original supply port?

Or move the supplies from the original supply port?

In other words, what are the supply ports that allow for unlimited fuel, supply and non malaria? And can they be moved?

Worr, out [/B][/QUOTE]

In any scenario (but intended for smaller map scenarios), any base can be set to gain automatic supplies, fuel, resources and/or oil at a preset daily rate. In scenarios with production on (like the main campaign game), only the USA base gets preset daily amounts of these items. Japan must use their factories to produce supplies and to turn oil into fuel. This happens wherever the factories are located assuming they have sufficient resources and manpower to operate. The preset daility arrival into bases (like Truk, Noumea and Brisbane in UV) is allowed in the editor so we can make scenarios similar in scope to UV that do not include the full map and/or the full production system. Basically, WitP can be used to create multiple UV type scenarios. Hope this answers your questions.

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Re: Re: Re: Supply - 8/11/2003 1:53:12 AM

worr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings
[B]In any scenario (but intended for smaller map scenarios), any base can be set to gain automatic supplies, fuel, resources and/or oil at a preset daily rate. In scenarios with production on (like the main campaign game), only the USA base gets preset daily amounts of these items. Japan must use their factories to produce supplies and to turn oil into fuel. This happens wherever the factories are located assuming they have sufficient resources and manpower to operate. The preset ability arrival into bases (like Truk, Noumea and Brisbane in UV) is allowed in the editor so we can make scenarios similar in scope to UV that do not include the full map and/or the full production system. Basically, WitP can be used to create multiple UV type scenarios. Hope this answers your questions. [/B][/QUOTE]

I understand about the scenarios...was thinking more of the longer campaign.

Even in UV I've often thought it would be nice to move a preset supply base like Noumea up the chain of Islands to say Rabaul once it is captured. For even before the capture of Rabaul....you really don't have the supply ships to keep everyone as "plump and happy" as you would like with a full campaign. Not only the distances, but the wear and tear on ships, limits your ability to sustain an offensive for long.

Now that makes sense...but given the longer ranges, and the longer time spans...it is hard for me to imagine using a preset supply point that is close to the battle in 1942, but far in 1945 to still get the job done given the scope of UV as I now experience it.

What I am asking about are "mobile" supply points. These fixed supply points that are original ports of departure for supply ships would then move with the advance once a major base was established.

So for example...you start with Noumea. Then you can move to say Truk. Then Saipan, etc....not too many points along the way, but enough to make the game less tedious for supply. You can only change it every two years, only after the enemy has been cleared out of so many miles from the base, etc...or other such stipulations.

Either that...or you just need way more supply ships to make an advance happen. Because at present in UV it seems you'll run out of supply fast. This improved with later patches, btw...but it still seems like it would run out.

Worr, out

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Post #: 8

Cargo ships - 8/11/2003 4:48:14 AM

decourcy

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Hi all,

worr,
actually it was far worse than is shown in UV. Through '42 SoPac rarely had more than 2-3 transports available for carrying troops at any given point in time. The 6th seebees in April-May '42 did not have much if any heavy equipment and Noumea had more in the range of 10000 supply and fuel available in game terms not 60000.

I created a scenario with Noumea being reduced to 3 port 4 airfield and Luganville unoccupied.

Cargo bottoms were just not available as it took a horendus amount of ships to keep Hawaii, Samoa, Fiji, Noumea, Auckland and Australia supplied.

Mike

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Post #: 9

- 8/11/2003 5:04:28 AM

worr

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No argument there.

But I've been noticing that supply becomes more difficult as time advances, and not the opposite.

I would expect shortages in 1942, but mail, choclate bars, etc up to the front in 1944. But what I experience in UV is that you can over extend you USN lines by being too aggressive.

Of course, I only have the context of UV to be concerned about this. Before the patches it was one of the things that made the game less realistic for me. It didn't hit you all at once, but only after you had been into a long campaign for a year plus.

Worr, out

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Post #: 10

- 8/11/2003 7:33:43 AM

Joel Billings

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You may be right in your concers, but I'd bet the reason you get overextended in UV is because of the forward deployment and heavy use of aircraft, especially the level bombers. It's easy in UV to fly them to the front and use them heavily instead of leaving a good portion of them back in Australia. That combined with moving more land units to the front uses large quantities of supplies. I would bet historically there was less moved forward and the number of air sorties was less than what players attempt to do.

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Post #: 11

- 8/11/2003 10:01:48 AM

denisonh

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Good thread.

Campaign planning and success are a function of logistics.

With logistics being properly modeled, it is the resposibility of the player to make the assessment on how to support current and planned operations. Since it is difficult, it is easy to outrun your logistical tail. Proper logisitcal planning, integrated with a sound strategic plan, are devestatingly effective.

Ignore the logistics, and you will fail. Fail to account for logistical concerns in your strategic plan, and your plan will fail.

That is why I love UV. And will more than likely love WitP. The logistics lacks the glamour, but is critical in the planning and execution of the campaign. That is a major portion of operational warfare, integration of logistics with operational plans to achieve strategic objectives.

As the saying goes, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.

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Post #: 12

Alpha version - 8/11/2003 10:31:27 PM

mogami

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Hi, I've found it is quite easy to run Japan low on supply early in scenario 1 (the long campaign) I have not had the same problem with fuel. I have a problem with fuel in forward bases but not fuel overall. Supply runs out every where. You have to be carefull and not send too much to one base and leave another base low.
(In PACWAR I just sent tons everywhere. It is not available in WITP)
One thing the Japanese have to be aware of is using supply to expand his production early in war. This can cause shortages for operations. The Japanese should perhaps not make extensive changes to production before the material from the SRA begins arriving back in the Home Islands.

On a positive note. As the Japanese capture the resource and oil centers he gains control of a limited supply production right where it is needed. (resource centers also produce supply)

Supply is created in Saigon, Singapore, Bangkok (not in enourmous amounts but enough to ease strain on transport and stockpiles in Japan.)

I've discovered it is good policy to expand these forward centers before ones back in Japan. It is easier to move resource to Saigon/Singapore then back to Japan.

Prior to opening a new area of operations you will need to spend some time (months) stockpiling material in forward bases. It is not feasable to try to maintain operations by running supply from Home Islands.

Places bases into Auto supply routine. Place ships in routine. Computer will send supply as it becomes available.

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Post #: 13

Re: Alpha version - 8/12/2003 8:26:00 PM

worr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]On a positive note. As the Japanese capture the resource and oil centers he gains control of a limited supply production right where it is needed. (resource centers also produce supply)[/B][/QUOTE]

Bingo!

That makes sense too.

Any such thing for the USN as it advances? Or does it all come from San Diego for the main campaign?

Worr, out

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Post #: 14

- 8/12/2003 8:28:44 PM

worr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings
[B]You may be right in your concerns, but I'd bet the reason you get overextended in UV is because of the forward deployment and heavy use of aircraft, especially the level bombers. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, only time will tell.

That's the problem with play testing logistics...you don't see it until its too late. ;)

But UV might not be the best rule of thumb to measure a game yet to. But it is the only one most people will have. I've never run out of logistics in UV. But I have curtailed my operations because of it...and rightly so...but I just see the dynamics of time and space being so much bigger with WiTP that I was only asking on those grounds.

Worr, out

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Post #: 15

- 8/13/2003 3:10:49 AM

The Gnome

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[QUOTE]Do you get to set the supply/fuel amount?

ie.

-Try to keep supply @ 35k and fuel @ 40k at Rabaul at all times
-Try to keep supply @ 80k and fuel@ 100k at Singapore at all times
[/QUOTE]

OMG this is an amazing idea and I hope it's doable! I'm glad to hear that auto-supply runs are being developed. :)

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Post #: 16