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RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 1/7/2020 7:26:30 PM   
MPHopcroft1

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I did not know anything at all about air recon. I paid for my ignorance when the Germans carried out a successful Sealion with four paratroop units I had no idea were in place. I still don't know how to do recon sorties.

I did not build nearly enough air in general in that game.



_____________________________

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(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 31
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 1/7/2020 8:46:12 PM   
El Condoro

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		4 paratroop units? I thought the max. the Germans could have was 3.

(in reply to MPHopcroft1)
Post #: 32
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 1/7/2020 9:26:08 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Probably no build limits, taking advantage, sad

If by air recon you mean Axis sending fighters (to no where) first because the Allied fighters are weaker and don't have aerial warfare its a weak/unrealistic part of the game.

You need to manage by setting fighters to escort.





Maritime bombers best scout



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 1/7/2020 9:37:06 PM >

(in reply to El Condoro)
Post #: 33
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/20/2020 8:07:07 PM   
forestrouse

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/18/2020
Status: offline 		1) Make sure to invest in production and industrial technology along with the seriously un-sexy command and control, logistics and spying.

Production technology lowers unit costs and industrial technology increases the number of MPPs. if you are not at level 4 or 5 by 1944/45 time frame you die no matter which side you are on.

Command and Control increases the effectiveness of your Headquarters - increasing the number of units the HQ can control and the number of action points for the HQ unit. This is one aspect of improving the supply situation.

Logistics is extremely important for the western allies as it increases the transport units but cannot be ignored by the Soviet Union or the Axis. Each level of logistics increases the build limit for the number of HQ units. Once you are on the offensive, lack of supply is a major reason why the offensives petter out.

Each level of spying increases the chance of getting tech breakthroughs thereby reducing the time it takes to complete tech upgrades. As someone pointed out in this thread, being behind by 2 tech levels is a death sentence in this game.

2) Keep your fighters and tank units in good health. I was wondering why the AI was eating my aerial lunch until I realized that that once fighters fall to around 6 in strength, they become pretty frail. If you allow them to fall behind in tech, then they get chewed up pretty quickly thereby making you more vulnerable to aerial which is also a death sentence - especially against the AI which knows how to pick on units by air to create openings for ground attack.

Similarly for tanks. If you allow them to drop to about 6 or so in strength, they become pretty vulnerable to counter attack. It takes discipline to take them out of your attacking/defending force, but if you don't do it, the opponent (AI or human) will pick them off.

3) I am pretty sure that you cannot upgrade units that are in the zone of control of an opponents unit. Also, if a unit is not controlled by a headquarters unit, upgrades and reinforcements are more limited - at least review the rules and limitations on upgrade and reinforcements.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 34
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/23/2020 6:16:26 AM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		Prod. is far more valuable for Italy or the UK p.e., while Ind. is for nations with already huge industrial basis. The discount you`ll get from Prod. is only related to the core unit, not to their upgrades.

(in reply to forestrouse)
Post #: 35
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/23/2020 10:31:18 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Prod. is far more valuable for Italy or the UK p.e., while Ind. is for nations with already huge industrial basis. The discount you`ll get from Prod. is only related to the core unit, not to their upgrades.




Did the rules on Production Technology change? I thought Prod Tech did reduce upgrade cost.

Manual

"Advances in any of the Manual Upgrades research
areas result in cumulative increases in production
and reinforcement costs for upgraded units.
High technology areas such as aircraft and Heavy
Tanks – units that consume vast quantities of oil
and minerals – will necessarily incur higher costs.
Thus, to offset these additional costs, developing
Production Technology will not only improve a
country’s industrial capacity but also the efficient
use of raw materials"

"Each new level of Production Technology research
decreases unit costs and the cost of Manual
Upgrades by 5%"

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 36
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/23/2020 5:16:47 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		You mean like in the most outdated manual ever, hehe?

Do the Maths: a fighter without any upgrade will cost 187 MPPs on the highest lvl of Prod. compared to 250 originally, equals 74.8% = 5%/Lvl.
A fighter with 5/5 will cost 375 MPPs compared to 438 originally, equals 85.62%.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 37
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/23/2020 9:09:07 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Whats hard for me to understand is the numbers of hours I played and never noticed.

tnx

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 38
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/23/2020 11:06:00 PM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Devs wish to comment on the above...?

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 39
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/24/2020 12:54:59 AM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		Well, I don`t think it`s that of a big deal, Prod. still has a decent return of investment, given the fact that it applies to all reinforcements/rebuys/buys.

It`s more a calculation of priorities: investing in Prod. comes at opportunity costs; research is capped, and especially in the beginning of the campaign there are far more valuable and urgent requirements. The cheapest way to run your forces is to avoid losses by techn. superiority and/or experienced units.

(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 40
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/24/2020 3:23:21 AM   
Elessar2


Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		Sugar: That all is true, in theory. But there are only a limited amount of techs that will give you a significant benefit. In Barbarossa as the Axis you'll likely have chits on all of Inf Weapons/Adv Tanks/Adv Ftrs/Ground Att/C&C, likely Long Range Air; anything else is going to go into things which help only in other theatres, like Adv Subs or AA.

Plus with the biggie techs it's one chit or bust [which is one reason I've been experimenting with 2 or 3 chit maximums]-there is literally no other techs I can add which will minimize my ground/air losses. When winter comes they're likely to be banged up, esp. after the -1 Russian Winter event. I simply found that ignoring the economic techs porked my subsequent campaigns, couldn't afford to repair everything before the following summer.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 41
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/24/2020 11:35:10 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

You mean like in the most outdated manual ever, hehe?

Do the Maths: a fighter without any upgrade will cost 187 MPPs on the highest lvl of Prod. compared to 250 originally, equals 74.8% = 5%/Lvl.
A fighter with 5/5 will cost 375 MPPs compared to 438 originally, equals 85.62%.



When exactly did the Prod Tech rules change? In addition to the "manual" I specifically remember Bill saying in a thread that the upgrade costs were also reduced.


In the Ind Tech vs Prod Tech research debate I always have 2 chits (until lv 4) on Ind Prod for SU & US, with GB its more of a luxury. IMO Ind Tech is the most important research to SU & US. With SU & US I will eventually start investing in Prod.
If the Allies make it to '43/'44 and the SU & US have Ind Tech lv 4/5 and Prod Tech lv 3-5 they are very hard to beat. SU Prod Tech will also compensate for greatly reduced Ind Mpps when the Axis controls a large percent of the map.

Against a highly skilled attack GB Ind & Prod tech are a luxury from the DAK entry until the US enters & engages. Delaying Egypt, holding Iraq & upgrading the Navy to protect the GB/SU convoy don't leave much room for Ind or Prod Tech.




(in reply to Elessar2)
Post #: 42
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/24/2020 2:26:02 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		I`m not sayin Prod. is worthless, far fom it, but benefits different nations differently at the progressing campaign.

And the limit of research is a serious concern, especially in case of Russia: you absolutely need to start the major techs asap: Inf., Tanks, Fighters, TacBombers, Air Defense; then C&C, Inf.- Armored- and Aerial Warfare in this order.

This totals 1750 MPPs, when C&C + AD are chitted twice. Leaves only 1 major research open, which should be Ind.. In this case and during the early stage of the war it`s far mor worth than Prod., because you will mainly command cheap Korps and Armies, which don`t benefit much from Prod., because they`re already at a discount.

And even when you got some of those techs out of the way, Arty, LongRange and especially Logistics are far more important, and the second chit on Ind. Opportunity costs.

quote:

When exactly did the Prod Tech rules change?


31. of February 2017, 6.42 a.m., hehe. I can remember Bill or Hubert discussing if it was worth to implement the discount on upgrades, but did`nt come to a conclusion. It`s really not very serious is it, as it applies to both sides?

Fact is the manual is of limited value right now, and if you didn`t follow the numerous patchnotes there`s no way to keep updated.


(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 43
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 6/24/2020 3:27:57 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Correct it has same impact, not a big deal. I'm more perturbed that I didn't notice.

I try to read the updates closely but miss stuff. Agreed on the manual.

From the WaW Forum 12/18

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xenocide

Production discounts apply to what?

I know they apply to new units and upgrades. Do they apply to reinforcing an existing unit?


Yes, both new units and reinforcing existing ones become cheaper.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 6/24/2020 3:28:27 PM >

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 44
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 9/6/2020 2:36:13 PM   
bfcj


Posts: 121
Joined: 4/10/2018
From: Tampa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Do you know the version # in which this change was made? I'm looking through the version_changes.txt file and cannot find it. I didn't re-read the entire document, but searched for "prod" and "tech" which I'd expect at least one of which would be in the change description.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 45
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 9/7/2020 5:08:20 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		Hi bfcj,

I don`t think there were any changes at all, it`s like that from the start; the manual was wrong and still is obviously.

(in reply to bfcj)
Post #: 46
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 9/7/2020 5:13:37 PM   
bfcj


Posts: 121
Joined: 4/10/2018
From: Tampa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Oh. Thanks!

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 47
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 9/8/2020 10:51:12 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Hi bfcj,

I don`t think there were any changes at all, it`s like that from the start; the manual was wrong and still is obviously.



Or the game has been wrong from the start

(in reply to bfcj)
Post #: 48
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 9/8/2020 4:27:16 PM   
Will952

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 9/29/2018
Status: offline 		A slight Allied tilt on Saudi Arabia is enough to start a 40MPP per turn flow of trade to the US. Not shabby at all!

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 49
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 7/7/2021 2:56:27 PM   
klschult

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/19/2020
Status: offline 		There are buttons above the strategic map at the bottom that show up-gradable and reinforceable units in green.

COOL: Just found the buttons for one-click reinforcing and upgrading! Why didn't anybody mention this?

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 50
RE: Things you WISHED you knew in your first game... - 8/28/2021 5:39:55 PM   
klschult

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/19/2020
Status: offline 		Not new, but after 100 games or so I learned you do not HAVE TO place new units at the beginning of a turn. There's a menu at the top labeled, oddly enough, "New Units" which I couldn't figure out the purpose of. Turns out, if you DON'T immediately place you're units, they show up there and you can place them later in the turn.

(in reply to GeneralJackDRipper)
Post #: 51
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