Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Interesting rabbit hole. One mitigating factor might be the geometry of MWIF hexagons. MWIF uses hexes that have pointy tops, and that means MWIF hexes are taller than they are wide. Maybe your analysis already accounts for this?

As Amit's website on hexagons puts it, "In the pointy orientation, a hexagon has width w = sqrt(3) * size and height h = 2 * size. The sqrt(3) comes from sin(60°)," where size is the half the distance from the center of hex to a hex point. For more details, see https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Interesting rabbit hole. One mitigating factor might be the geometry of MWIF hexagons. MWIF uses hexes that have pointy tops, and that means MWIF hexes are taller than they are wide. Maybe your analysis already accounts for this?

As Amit's website on hexagons puts it, "In the pointy orientation, a hexagon has width w = sqrt(3) * size and height h = 2 * size. The sqrt(3) comes from sin(60°)," where size is the half the distance from the center of hex to a hex point. For more details, see https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/

Cool ... no my analysis didn't account for this correction. Let me take a look and see if I understand how to apply this correction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

Strangely enough, this is only partly true. Mannerheim himself wrote after the war that there were large opposition parties who wanted to add Karelia to Finland. He silenced them by promising that if Germany would take Leningrad, he would start moving the Finnish army further into Karelia.
So I would suggest to skip the roll and simply state that if Germany controls Leningrad, the Finns can move into the USSR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

Strangely enough, this is only partly true. Mannerheim himself wrote after the war that there were large opposition parties who wanted to add Karelia to Finland. He silenced them by promising that if Germany would take Leningrad, he would start moving the Finnish army further into Karelia.
So I would suggest to skip the roll and simply state that if Germany controls Leningrad, the Finns can move into the USSR.

I like it. Simple and it makes sense. Would you allow the Finns to move into the borderlands north of Leningrad and eventually help with the siege? Did that happen historically?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

Strangely enough, this is only partly true. Mannerheim himself wrote after the war that there were large opposition parties who wanted to add Karelia to Finland. He silenced them by promising that if Germany would take Leningrad, he would start moving the Finnish army further into Karelia.
So I would suggest to skip the roll and simply state that if Germany controls Leningrad, the Finns can move into the USSR.

I like it. Simple and it makes sense. Would you allow the Finns to move into the borderlands north of Leningrad and eventually help with the siege? Did that happen historically?

I would say that they are allowed to move into all Finnish controlled 1939 hexes. I would not allow them to attack Leningrad, since they stopped moving when they reached the 1939 borders of their country.
To prevent Soviet attacks on the border hexes I would lift the no-attack possibility the moment the USSR decides to attack Finnish units inside the borderlands. Historically, the Soviets only defended against the Finns until 1944.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

the e-w distortion is a reason some designs (inc original wif iirc) use map boxes. I've always been interested in trying to "distort" (ie expand as you move away from the equator) the map hexes to accommodate this such that a hex at Murmansk (25mi) would be ~2x as wide as a hex at 40 deg (53mi)

painful and probably painful to look at as well but thoughts like gaps between hexs tp show the "faster" movement etc and maybe larger and larger hexes to fill some of those gaps as you move away from the equator...

i wonder what this would make the map look like ;-)

i also wonder what it would do to the relative speed of units (maybe they are "targeted" at roughly 40 deg lat? and move to slow at extreme N/S lats but too fast at equator?) and how it might change play in the far north...

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

for scripting Finland "northern front" - the soviets had garrisons on the border and the Finns were more or less only concerned with reclaiming their lands. so allow the Finns to move no further than 1 hex from their original borders (or even only into original borders) thereby forcing at least 1 or 2 garrisons to hold the rail hexes that would be ZOC'd (near Salla)
i think this would more or less follow historical pattern (the 1 or 2 garr would really be spread over a much larger section of the border but so would the Finns - more at a brigade level)
the Finns had zero interest in attacking russia (maybe there were some elements, on a roll of 10 once a year maybe the government changes? +1 or +2 if Leningrad is taken). They survived as an independent country post war due to this

Strangely enough, this is only partly true. Mannerheim himself wrote after the war that there were large opposition parties who wanted to add Karelia to Finland. He silenced them by promising that if Germany would take Leningrad, he would start moving the Finnish army further into Karelia.
So I would suggest to skip the roll and simply state that if Germany controls Leningrad, the Finns can move into the USSR.

I like it. Simple and it makes sense. Would you allow the Finns to move into the borderlands north of Leningrad and eventually help with the siege? Did that happen historically?

I would say that they are allowed to move into all Finnish controlled 1939 hexes. I would not allow them to attack Leningrad, since they stopped moving when they reached the 1939 borders of their country.
To prevent Soviet attacks on the border hexes I would lift the no-attack possibility the moment the USSR decides to attack Finnish units inside the borderlands. Historically, the Soviets only defended against the Finns until 1944.

I like it! Simple, elegant and I feel historical.

Historically, the US never declared war on Finland during WW2. They did declare war on all the other German allies (i.e., Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania). The US did severed diplomatic relations with Finland on June 30, 1944 in an effort to force Finland to seek a "settlement" with the Soviet Union and Great Britain. As I understand it an armistice was signed in Moscow on September 19, 1944.

Interestingly, the US reestablished diplomatic relations with Finland on September 1, 1945 just shortly after the end of WW2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

In War in the Pacific, the problem of mapping a globe onto a plane was handled by giving naval and air units ranges, and stating that a hex was 60 miles across in the tropics, 50 miles in the temperate zone, and 40 miles across in the arctic.