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New Logistics Network - How to get it going?

 
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New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 9:17:49 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline 		Every time I think I have a handle on how the game's logistics work, it slaps me down showing me just how much more I need to learn...

Ref the figure below.

Montgomery is a new, isolated zone.
I nationalized the private truck hub.
I formed a new SHQ in Montgomery City and assigned it to the city.
I transferred enough fuel and other resources to get the truck station active and it's producing 800 truck points.
Yet, all the military units in the zone are starving...

What is going on??? Any ideas?
Does a logistic network need at least one hex of road/rail?
It costs a whopping 400 IP to build a dirt road out of Montgomery City because it's in low mountains, so I haven't invested in that.

I would have thought the units would use their own organic logistic capability to get the resources they need from the SHQ directly.

Is this a bug in the game?? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for any ideas.

-Mark R.













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< Message edited by mroyer -- 9/13/2020 9:18:45 PM >
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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 9:58:27 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		The AI is not limited by logistic rules.

As a player, when you gain control, the logistic rules go in to effect. Unlike your starting city (which has an SHQ), no allowances were made for a starting SHQ inventory to keep you alive for a few dozen turns.

First, prepare a connection with adequate logistic points to an SHQ before you gain control.

Since the designer assumed this would be done with conquest, it's usually not an issue if your units are in supply.

However, if you gain the city and zone via diplomacy, that logistic connection must planned and prepared beforehand. This appears to have been an afterthought and not tested adequately during beta.

Second, do not nationalize the private transport hub until you have a source of oil either in zone or via a SHQ.

To help yourself, don't hesitate to create your own truck stations without making them a new city or zone. I routinely make truck stations or supply bases and then close them as a method of short-term network extensions. Do not overly fear administrative strain. Almost all penalties in the game can be, or need to be, simply bulled over with mass.

Once understood, you may come to realize it's impossible to lose the game unless your regime is hit with some random lightening bolt.




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< Message edited by Malevolence -- 9/13/2020 10:16:32 PM >

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 10:56:16 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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Status: offline 		Check the logistics preview, the problem might be resolved once you end the turn. Truck/rail stations will only generate logistics points on the map the turn after they've produced their initial round of logistics points. It's mentioned in the manual, something to do with preventing a chicken-and-egg problem with fuel being needed to produce logistics points, but logistics points being needed to get fuel to the asset that's going to produce the logistics points.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 11:00:09 PM   
mroyer

 

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> Second, do not nationalize the private transport hub until you have a source of oil either in zone or via a SHQ.

I do have a new, fully functional SHQ complete with food, oil, IP, metal and other stuff right in the city. I don't understand why the new Montgomery SHQ isn't able to feed the troops under it's command in it's zone. The left SHQ side-bar I show in the image is not my original SHQ, its another one right in the city where the troops are starving.

I'm really beginning to think this is a bug in the game. I'll bet if I built a road even just one hex all would be good. But I can't test that to prove it because it will eat up all my resources for a turn and this is a PBEM.

-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 11:17:28 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline 		Mark, check the notes for '1.05+', as we are using the '1.04beta7' & that could be part of the issue.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 11:35:18 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline 		Yes, that's a good point Eddie. Our game's version is getting fairly out of date.

By coincidence, I just ran into another "bug" in 1.04b7 that is corrected and works fine in 1.05b4 - if I choose a lesser model type when raising a new formation, it doesn't recalculate the lower IP/metal/etc investment. At the highest model, I couldn't get to 50% so couldn't build the unit. At a lower level I should be able to, but can't in 1.04b7 and can in 1.05b4.

Perhaps we should consider a simultaneous upgrade by all four players - though that is risky.

-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/13/2020 11:51:00 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		Are you certain the units are assigned to the new SHQ? Also, if they are assigned to the old SHQ do they receive supplies then?

As you pointed out, I don't see a road connection to Montgomery City.

Don't be surprised if there are hidden consequences if not connected to existing logistic infrastructure.

I would not be surprised to learn that the designer did not make allowances for multiple root nodes in the network---multiple logistic networks.

Multiple SHQ's seem to have been ignored in beta testing.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 9/13/2020 11:52:39 PM >

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 12:06:02 AM   
mroyer

 

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Yes, I double checked. The units are indeed attached to the Montgomery SHQ. They are the Montgomery militia as it happens.

quote:


Multiple SHQ's seem to have been ignored in beta testing.


I agree. If I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, this may be one for the bug-reports (unless it's been fixed on a later beta than we're playing - and that's not easy to test).


Just to be clear, I'm having a blast playing this game. These issues, frustrating as they are in the moment, have not reduced my overall enjoyment of playing.

As always, thanks for the thoughts and insights.
-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 12:43:11 AM   
eddieballgame

 

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Status: offline 		I would be ok with updating our version at least to 1.05 & the betas as well if all agree.
My understanding is all/many/some of the 'updates' do not affect an ongoing game with a previous version...so it might not make a difference.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 1:04:34 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

I would be ok with updating our version at least to 1.05 & the betas as well if all agree.
My understanding is all/many/some of the 'updates' do not affect an ongoing game with a previous version...so it might not make a difference.


Yes, I think you are correct. I think some bug-fixes will take effect immediately upon update even for an ongoing game and others would need a game restart. I believe the beta update logs mention which fixes fall into each category, but I haven't really paid much attention. I will read through them to see if it's worth considering an update to our PBEM.

-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 1:41:39 AM   
gmsitton

 

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Status: offline 		The SHQ needs a road/rail connection in order to move supplies.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 2:14:10 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmsitton

The SHQ needs a road/rail connection in order to move supplies.



I suspect you are correct - although I can't easily prove it.

I suspect if I built even a single hex of dirt road (at a whopping cost of 400IP!), all of a sudden all of my units would draw supply from the logistic net.

Because there is no road, the units' organic logistics capability won't drive the extra hex to the capital to pick up supplies, even though the capital is within range.

This, of course, feels like non-sense to me and is probably not what the designer's intended.

Units should be able to draw supply directly from a single-hex "logistical net" that contains the SHQ, even if there is no road, if that logistical-net otherwise meets all criteria needed to supply units.

... I think.... (still learning the game so could be missing something).

-Mark R.



< Message edited by mroyer -- 9/14/2020 2:16:24 AM >

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 2:49:31 AM   
gmsitton

 

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Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		Use the map layers bar in the right-hand menu and look at some of the Logistics Points button selections. That will show you how much logistics is moving into and out of your SHQ.

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Post #: 13
RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 3:25:54 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		To reproduce, start a new game. Remove all roads from the starting city. Move forward some turns and observe.


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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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Post #: 14
RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 3:31:09 AM   
mroyer

 

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Joined: 3/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmsitton

Use the map layers bar in the right-hand menu and look at some of the Logistics Points button selections. That will show you how much logistics is moving into and out of your SHQ.


Initial points were 800 and current points 800.
(Preview points are 800 too). None of the points in the Montgomery hex seem to be used.

-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 4:51:45 PM   
DTurtle

 

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		I observed something similar in a game when I created a new SHQ in a cut off city. Since the city only survived for a few turns, I never really followed it up.

I suggest you report this as a bug in the appropriate forum.

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Post #: 16
RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/14/2020 10:08:04 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline 		> I suggest you report this as a bug in the appropriate forum.

Yes, I'm beginning to agree. I've been searching high-n-low for a reason for about 10 or 15 turns now.

Also, earlier in the same game I successfully established a separate logistics net in another minor that joined my nation. The only difference that I've been able to fine is that the previous one had a dirt road from the capital/SHQ hex.

-Mark R.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/15/2020 1:35:35 AM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
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Status: offline 		Does it make a difference which SHQ the units are set to in their OOB?
It would be hilarious if they were stubbornly insisting on getting supplies from the Capital's HQ, regardless of whether it was accessible.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/15/2020 2:17:06 AM   
gmsitton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansLemurson

Does it make a difference which SHQ the units are set to in their OOB?
It would be hilarious if they were stubbornly insisting on getting supplies from the Capital's HQ, regardless of whether it was accessible.


It does make a difference. A combat unit should be assigned to the closest SHQ which can provide all requisite supplies.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/15/2020 2:45:51 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmsitton


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansLemurson

Does it make a difference which SHQ the units are set to in their OOB?
It would be hilarious if they were stubbornly insisting on getting supplies from the Capital's HQ, regardless of whether it was accessible.


It does make a difference. A combat unit should be assigned to the closest SHQ which can provide all requisite supplies.


They for sure are assigned to the Montgomery SHQ. I've double and triple checked that.

This turn I just connected a dirt road all the way to Montgomery through the mountains. So, well see if that clears everything up next turn or whether it's something else.

-Mark R.


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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/16/2020 2:28:47 AM   
mroyer

 

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There is undoubtedly some sort of bug I'm running into. I'll need to report it.
I connected the city through great expense (720IP) to the dirt road and still all the units are starving. And that even with the logistic net showing 800 truck points in each hex.

With that, I knew something was really wrong so I started scrutinizing everything and I noticed the Montgomery Militia are assigned to a different SHQ depending on which window you look at (see figure below).

I also noticed that on the strategic map, the Montgomery SHQ (S-3) doesn't appear, but S-2 and S-1 do - almost as if the game is only partially recognizing S-3's existence.

Ahh well, the 720IP will surely hurt my effort at the war front, but as this playing is a learning exercise, it was worth it to figure out what is going on.

-Mark R.





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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/16/2020 4:26:34 PM   
Falke

 

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Status: offline 		Did you actually use Unit Admin to reassign every unit to the new SHQ?

The logical reason for the above state is:-

Inital OOB 1SHQ > Mil > Mont > Units

If you then change Mont to 3 SHQ, the OOB Display is then 3SHQ > Mil > Mont > Units BUT the units are still 1SHQ !

I checked in a game of mine with 2 SHQ. In the OOB the militia are shown under the SHQ to which the city belongs, the units themselves can belong to a different HQ ( I have some Militia far from home & therefore switched them to a different HQ+ when the 2nd was formed all units had to be reassigned)

Edit: For Independant units a city does get shown under different SHQ'S(multiple entries) based on the units SHQ assignment. I would guess this function is missing for Militia

< Message edited by Falke -- 9/16/2020 4:34:36 PM >

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/16/2020 8:11:34 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
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Status: offline 		Reported this onerous task previously per link via [1.05b1] Independent and militia units assignment to SHQ

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 9/16/2020 8:12:55 PM >

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: New Logistics Network - How to get it going? - 9/16/2020 11:03:59 PM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Reported this onerous task previously per link via [1.05b1] Independent and militia units assignment to SHQ



Thanks for that Mal - I hadn't had time to report it properly yet and wasn't sure if Tech Support was the right place.

-Mark R.

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