Harbors have no protection against subs

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> The War Room >> Harbors have no protection against subs

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Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/3/2020 7:15:00 PM

ReinerAllen

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I'm playing a PBEM game (Fall Weise) and my opponent is using his German subs like battle ships. He also goes into my harbors gangs up sending in one sub after another until the ship is sunk. Harbors and cities can build and upgrade anti-air defenses why can't it build upgrade sub defense?

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/4/2020 9:04:37 AM

BillRunacre

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Ports do provide defense bonuses to units attacked by subs within them.

It would be useful to know what tech level his subs are attack, and whether this is a common experience or not.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/4/2020 6:41:33 PM

ReinerAllen

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Well, it's September 1941 and he already has his sub tech up to one and I'm sure I saw a couple of subs with upgraded to two.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/4/2020 7:08:46 PM

ReinerAllen

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He just texted me, not only are all of his subs level 2 but they have harbor penetrating technology. So the Axis can upgrade their subs pretty fast, but it takes forever for the allies to research anti sub tech.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/4/2020 11:41:39 PM

bfcj

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Yeah I've been on the receiving end of a player who got really creative with his subs. Done correctly it can put a real hurt on the British navy.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/6/2020 9:15:42 AM

El_Condoro

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I've had MTs take out a 10-str sub in the sub pens at St Nazaire. That was an eye-opener.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/14/2020 11:48:01 AM

Hartmann301

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReinerAllen

He also goes into my harbors gangs up sending in one sub after another until the ship is sunk.

I've always wanted to see this done. Seems like you could only do it a few times before needing to return back to friendly harbors for refitting. In that time you must be getting harassed by destroyers and bombers..probably losing several subs in the whole process.

< Message edited by Hartmann301 -- 9/14/2020 11:50:28 AM >

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/14/2020 12:25:31 PM

Markiss

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Traditionally, a sub trying to enter a harbor is an almost suicidal mission, attempted by only the most daring commanders. The mouth of the harbor is a choke point, easily sealed with sub nets and patrolling sub-chasers. Beyond that you've got minefields, shallow water, patrolling aircraft, and shore batteries waiting to pound anything that surfaces to junk, just to name a few of the hazards. The commanders who managed to sneak into a harbor undetected were regarded as heroes for a reason, most would never even attempt it.

The concept of entire fleets of submarines waltzing into a harbor and destroying the ships there feels, well, unrealistic. Ships are easy to find in the harbor. If it was possible for submarines to attack them there, it would have been done over and over during the war. Instead, we find only a few isolated incidents, and never by more than one sub. There is a reason for this.

Ships that enter a harbor should be largely safe from sub attacks, but be more vulnerable to air attack, as they cannot maneuver.

< Message edited by Markiss -- 9/14/2020 8:31:05 PM >

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/15/2020 1:20:56 AM

ReinerAllen

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I thoroughly agree with you.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/15/2020 10:09:13 AM

Marcinos1985

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Ports do provide defense bonuses to units attacked by subs within them.

It would be useful to know what tech level his subs are attack, and whether this is a common experience or not.

WaW player here. I can confirm, that subs ganging up on a capital ship may sink it with little luck. 4 of them on lvl 1 got a BB in one of my last games, and BB's are a little bit more resilient than cruisers.

Subs have a very high attack rating, while most ships (except DD's) have defense against subs exactly zero. So even in port a sub may get 0:1 or 0:2 odds, especially when it's high level or experienced. 3-4 of them and any ship except DD is gone. As @Markiss below stated, hardly realistic. At open sea ok, they got me, but in friendly harbour?

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/15/2020 10:23:25 AM

The Land

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReinerAllen

He just texted me, not only are all of his subs level 2 but they have harbor penetrating technology.

erm, what technology is this? Have never seen it in the game.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/16/2020 2:33:11 PM

ReinerAllen

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Neither did I, until I was suddenly faced with it. It's a real tech and so far it's sinking my British ships one by one.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/16/2020 7:18:20 PM

Sugar

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It`s the "G�nther Prien Commemorate Tech".

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/18/2020 9:46:42 PM

ReinerAllen

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It's really not realistic. Fine, give the Axis upgrades for their subs, but do away with this "harbor penetration."

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/22/2020 7:48:40 PM

bfcj

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When your opponent researches harbor penetration you have to counter with anti-submarine nets.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/23/2020 12:47:45 AM

ReinerAllen

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Is sub nets an actual upgrade for harbors?

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/23/2020 9:14:15 AM

BillRunacre

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There is no upgrade for Ports against Subs, though upgrading ships with ASW will help protect them, as will keeping Destroyers in the vicinity and/or a Maritime Bomber.

Though I will be implementing a change here too to increase Ports' defenses against subs, so thanks for the feedback.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/24/2020 2:03:38 PM

bfcj

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I was joking about the sub nets, as I assumed the "harbor penetration tech" upgrade was also a joke. Maybe they were playing a mod in which that tech was added? If so, I apologize for the confusion.

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RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 9/26/2020 3:43:47 PM

ReinerAllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

There is no upgrade for Ports against Subs, though upgrading ships with ASW will help protect them, as will keeping Destroyers in the vicinity and/or a Maritime Bomber.

Though I will be implementing a change here too to increase Ports' defenses against subs, so thanks for the feedback.

Thank you.

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Post #: 19

RE: Harbors have no protection against subs - 10/1/2020 8:21:15 PM

Sugar

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Weird discussion again, when historically a german sub managed to infiltrate the most important british war port and sunk the "Royal Oak".

Increasing the port`s ability to defend against subs solely impacts one side. On the other hand, allied heavy units can attack indirectly ships in ports even without the possibility of retaliation. Imagine an enemy BB firing at your port, and neither the coastal arty nor your BB placed in port firing back.

It should be able to upgrade ports against any attack, not only of subs. This way the balance wouldn`t be harmed.

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Post #: 20

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> The War Room >> Harbors have no protection against subs

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