Missile course and waypoints adjustment?

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Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/14/2020 6:27:57 AM

pbrowne

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From: Perth, Western Australia
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I know that there is the option to clear a course for a missile in the Weapon Allocation dialog.

However, this requires having to go back to the Weapon Allocation dialog via Shift F1, selecting the target, then clear the course and re-plotting. Why doesn't the plot course for missiles have the same adjustable way points as for units (but before firing...)? As it is, it can be a bit clunky and tedious...

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 10/14/2020 6:32:29 AM >

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RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/14/2020 6:48:51 AM

michaelm75au

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One thing is that until the missile is fired, it doesn't exist as an 'unit' in order to show the plotted course and set/update way-points. In the attack mode, it is a 'virtual' plotted path that takes affect once fired.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to pbrowne)

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RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/14/2020 7:42:41 AM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

One thing is that until the missile is fired, it doesn't exist as an 'unit' in order to show the plotted course and set/update way-points. In the attack mode, it is a 'virtual' plotted path that takes affect once fired.

Thanks but the question was more to do with design usability, rather than a missile is a unit or not. I just want to be able to adjust the way points while in plotting mode, rather than having to go back to the Weapon Allocation dialog and start over etc. I'm not talking about changing the plot while missile is in flight, except for block IV TLAMS...but I guess that is another matter.

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 10/14/2020 8:02:04 AM >

(in reply to michaelm75au)

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RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/14/2020 12:12:16 PM

KnightHawk75

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Joined: 11/15/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

One thing is that until the missile is fired, it doesn't exist as an 'unit' in order to show the plotted course and set/update way-points. In the attack mode, it is a 'virtual' plotted path that takes affect once fired.

Thanks but the question was more to do with design usability, rather than a missile is a unit or not. I just want to be able to adjust the way points while in plotting mode, rather than having to go back to the Weapon Allocation dialog and start over etc. I'm not talking about changing the plot while missile is in flight, except for block IV TLAMS...but I guess that is another matter.

Yeah but what Michael is saying is those waypoints don't actually exist as "waypoint objects" yet to easily manipulate on screen, it's just a table of coords for which it just plots the dotted lines from one to the next.

I think I get what you want though, and it would be very nice addition to the wish-list, so I'll sketch it out in more detail.

During manual weapon allocation and once entering "plot mode", for each mouse click a temporary marker\waypoint square is placed on the map display associated with the coord. Then for example, a shift+click on a temporary marker would allow selecting it, and a shift+click+drag (whatever works best) lets you move it. Upon each move\mouse-up\deselection it's coords are updated in the list and ideally the dotted plots for all are redrawn. Then upon exiting plot mode the list\table is submitted as exists today to the allocation, then all temporary markers\waypoints used in the process are deleted. Also when entering plot mode and a plotted course list\table pre-exists, each list\table entry is generated as a temporary marker on the display, such that they are easily moveable and process continues\acts just like the initial aforementioned process.

This would allow easy creation where a single miss-click (happens very often for me) requires clearing and starting the process over again, and also allow easy editing of existing allocations with courses involved. I do not discount the effort and testing that are involved to make something like this happen and work smoothly though, it's more than a small tweak.

I'm thinking I should just dupe the above in the feature requests thread, if you and I are thinking the same in terms of what is desired and how it should work?

Ever more where the plot allocation already appears to be kinda of smart (remembering the last course used for a target sometimes), it would makes updating that existing course where you might only be wanting to change the last couple legs a breeze.

An example I'm talking about with that is say you have Unit#1 attacking Target#2 with 8 jasm-er's, you want all 8 to fly the same basic course but then 4 to divert toward the end and approach from the south, and 4 to say divert and approach from the west. You allocate the first 4, plot your perfect course such that it includes the approach to the south. You un-pause and let those 4 fire (so you can use new course), then you go allocate 4 more of the same munition from unit#1, at present the dialog will remember the last course and use it by default unless you clear it (which is handy!), but often I need to clear it because I want the next 4 to have 80% the same course, but break off on the last 2-3 points. Under the aforementioned enhancement, all I have to do is adjust the final couple points to branch off and come in from the west, not re-plot the entire course. Super handy when doing large coordinated multi directional pgm strikes, especially when say you've got 16-20 waypoints zig-zagging through valleys using mountains as visual and em cover. That said you can kind of do this today (as already mentioned) BUT only as long as the munitions have post-launch re-programmable\re-targeting flags on them (and the unit has the proper comms required for it), such that you launch all 8 (sometimes with a couple extra dummy waypoints toward the end), and then post-launch pick 4 munitions and adjust their final couple waypoints.

< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 10/14/2020 12:13:24 PM >

(in reply to pbrowne)

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RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/15/2020 12:27:57 AM

pbrowne

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From: Perth, Western Australia
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That all sounds good to me Knight. Great that you are running with this enhancement and kneading it into shape conceptually.

Would the missile paths still be visible after plotting is done and the Weapons Allocation dialog is closed? At least up until missiles have hit target/destroyed? I think this would help with a more complete conceptualisation of the battlefield planning. There could be the option of toggling their display...

Can we also include leaving the Weapon Allocation dialog open while plotting, and leave it users to close if they want. This would save having to redo Shift F1 to do other things in that dialog, including clearing a plot, though there could be a key+mouse click method of deleting points.

Peter

(in reply to KnightHawk75)

Post #: 5

RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/15/2020 4:01:23 PM

KnightHawk75

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Joined: 11/15/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

That all sounds good to me Knight. Great that you are running with this enhancement and kneading it into shape conceptually.

Would the missile paths still be visible after plotting is done and the Weapons Allocation dialog is closed? At least up until missiles have hit target/destroyed? I think this would help with a more complete conceptualisation of the battlefield planning. There could be the option of toggling their display...

Can we also include leaving the Weapon Allocation dialog open while plotting, and leave it users to close if they want. This would save having to redo Shift F1 to do other things in that dialog, including clearing a plot, though there could be a key+mouse click method of deleting points.

Peter

You mentioned something I forgot too mention but should have because it's a not small thing. That is the ability to also delete a marker\way-point while plotting and having one (and only one at a time) selected (maybe it's limited to only the last marker\way-point in the series to keep things simpler for delete process?).

I would leave whatever happens today after launch the way it is. As it is in those cases the path is usually shown with a bold line if you select a fired munition with way-points, or light gray if not selected. For those munitions that where it can be changed in-flight, I would not touch a thing as it seems to work for the most part just fine in my experience.
As for ability to turn off showing munition flight paths (vs all flight paths which I think you can already do) I'm going to guess means that means flagging munition way-points differently if they aren't already than general way-points such that they can be more easily filtered out. I'd be interested to hear if others would find that very useful often enough, I think I might for large scene when I have 200 (or more) munitions in the air and I'm already turning off almost everything display wise to maximize performance on my old rig.

WpnAllocDialog - I'd have to think about some more, as is it is I already have issues with it not working at times for me the way it's supposed too. Esc never actually exiting plot mode and bringing be back to the dialog (I have to shft-f1 again. Also after a long time of game use (or tons of invocations of the dialog) sometimes it bugs out like some other dialogs on my system and starts trying to spawn (but not actually spawning) behind the main window. Then I must minimize the app (via taskman as normal minimizes doesn't clear it up - see a tech support thread about that though it happens much much more with text loading dialogs like briefings and lua script windows) to make it spawn. Anyway I'm digressing way off the subject, I mention also it cause it makes it harder to gauge ideas for change around it. I'm guessing that the idea behind it disappearing as is accomplishes two things, it's an indication that you're in plot mode, and also gives you more screen real-estate to do what's needed. My default is to say I tend to think works ok when it works as intended, but then I have a single monitor setup, and if had two or more I wonder if I might have a different opinion.

(in reply to pbrowne)

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RE: Missile course and waypoints adjustment? - 10/16/2020 1:37:42 AM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
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I didn't know ESC re-opens WpnAllocDialog when plotting course. Didn't see it in the manual (though it mentions F1...), anyway that works for me even though I have two monitors, so I would be happy to leave as is.

I haven't played with TACTOM Block IV/V missiles yet (and don't see anything in the manual). However, the non-TACTOM Tomahawk path shows waypoints in flight suggesting they can be moved, which of course they can't. I suggest this is misleading, and the waypoints should not show for non-TACTOM, but I think that is a very minor issue.

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 10/16/2020 1:39:18 AM >

(in reply to KnightHawk75)

Post #: 7