Help with supply

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Help with supply - 10/21/2020 3:27:50 PM

Error in 0

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Ok, can someone eli5 to me why my JPN units are in so poor supply as in picture below?
Why is supply = 0 in Tsinguan city? And 2 in Tsinan? To the south the Wuhan has supply 1. The 2 chinese units that are surrounded did not loose any str during its turn.
Next turn supply shows 5 for Tsinan, but that was also the case last turn, still its 2.
Chinas forces are able to reinforse all points in the area (except surrounded) as far as I can tell. How can units south of Tjentsin be able to do that?

Regards EI0

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RE: Help with supply - 10/21/2020 3:33:42 PM

Error in 0

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Another ex below. After a full round in this position the chinese gar attacked my full str gar with inf weaponry 1 and the score was 3-0 favor china. No nearby HQ to china as far as I can tell.

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< Message edited by Error in 0 -- 10/21/2020 3:34:04 PM >

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RE: Help with supply - 10/21/2020 4:38:38 PM

taffjones

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The Chinese have cut the rail lines from Manchuria and Korea.

This destroys Japanese supply in the South of China, as they don't have a direct line back to a supply source.

Not sure exactly how it works, but I have had it done to me and suffered the same fate.

I am sure someone with more knowledge of the mechanics will give you a full explanation.

But it is vital to keep those rail lines open, or retake them as quickly as possible if the Chinese break them.

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RE: Help with supply - 10/21/2020 5:19:07 PM

Marcinos1985

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You need a land connection to "Primary Source" of supply. Rail is cut, so there is none.
Yes, it hurts.

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RE: Help with supply - 10/22/2020 3:57:30 PM

Xsillione

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Joined: 1/18/2019
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Since you territories are cut from primary source, you are limited to either the port or the city supplies.

Occupied ports are limited to 8 (as seen in tientsin port), but it could be lower from blockade, bombing or just regular occopiation and such.

As you can se from the reducing numbers, tsinan is supplied from the west, not from north, since the tientsin port linket to the city, and gives noting to the hex south from it.

Why tsingyuan and tsinin did not give you supply: they are destroyed, regular ownership change and siege (two enemy unit next it) reduced it to nothing, and they give zero supply as source, and one encircled, the other left with two from the railline from some port or other city. Same true for the city south to suchow, it is fully destroyed, and only supllied from suchow, but several hex distance makes it hard.

As for why the chinese are better supplied: they start from 10, since whatever is their source, that is linked to the chinese capital, chengchow generates supply 10 as source, so you can count the hexes and distance for it from there. If my counting is good and took all in, the unit south from tientsin gets 2 supply from chenchow, before the hq factored in, if it supplies that unit, it could be better, and also not counting any other city on chinese hand westward.

Same goes for the second picture, you generate 4 in canton (should be 5, maybe bombed or siege before), so it drops to 3 in the next hex. China generates 10 in hengyang, since it is almost surely linked to the capital. Three distance, some mountain and it drops to 2-4, depending on how exactly counted and what route is the best, maybe more is hq involve in it. Making it an equal supply state, but you are attacking into the mountains, rarely a good idea.

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RE: Help with supply - 10/22/2020 4:32:00 PM

Error in 0

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Interesting, did not know China had default 10 in supply in cities. In first pic I can only assume HQ in Yanku else I would have spottet it. That counts to supply 2 from Yanku, as well from Chengchow. Do they combine? Also, does not supply have to be >5 to reinforce to max?

What do you mean by "they are destroyd and changed ownership"? These cities has never been on chinese hands. Take Nanning, even if JPN have surrounded that city it still gives 5 supply and allow reinforcement to 5. Why would that not apply in this case?

Or do I have to conclude that since these cities historically (but not morally :) is not JPN soil,the supply reduces to 0 while surrounded,whereas i.e. a surrounded chinese unit in Nanning recieve 5 supply?

If pressing s twice shows Tsinan at lvl 5 next turn, why 2 this turn when situation was better previous turn? Is weather influencing supply in cities?

In the second picture I must remind you that I did not attack the garrison, the chinese garrison attacked me winning 3-0! Despite I have road in mountains and 1 inf weaponry (they 0). I have never seen anything like that before.. Are you telling me that the city Hengyan is supplying 10 without HQ boost? And that counts to 5 supply at gar? And those two extra supply points is enough for a chrushing victory?

The emperor mentioned "seppuku", so any further clarification is appreciated.

Ps: I found out that all cities have supply = 3, even shanghai despite not even close to enemy. Dont know why tough

< Message edited by Error in 0 -- 10/22/2020 4:50:46 PM >

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RE: Help with supply - 10/23/2020 9:30:55 AM

Xsillione

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Supply is a a bit complex as you see:
Ideal case, you have a land route to a main source, making your cities as a distribution center, and generating 10, if this is not available, than each city and other source generate some amount by itself (8 for the largest cities, 5 for big ones, 3 for the smallest settlements), but this is maxed to their current lvl, which reduced if changed hands and if siege happens, which can go down to zero.
Also occupied cities can never go over 8, so even from the start you generate 8 in chine, and the chinese generate 10, before encircling, cut routes and destruction comes into play.

For siege, two units needs to be next to the settlement, encircling and siting one not enough, in that case, the city (nanning) will provide 5 supply forever, but two or more, and nanning will go down one per turn, giving you the city in time, but after that, it will stay at destroyed, and will grow with one per turn too, so this also limits your actions from that city later, unless other source can help out.

No, two source do not add together, just gives you more safety to get even that small amount.

If the Chinese gar attacked, than it is a bad luck for you mostly, or something else, like your own gar is very low on morale.

The most important part for that area, never allow the chinese to cut the railways on the coast, those lines what supply your forces, if cut, you will have insane trouble (and if you play with the chinese, your goal is to cut those lines.)

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RE: Help with supply - 10/23/2020 9:23:44 PM

Helsingor

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Hi Ei0,
Some info from my POV in the game you are referencing.
The two Chinese units that you cut off south of Suchow did in fact suffer losses from being at zero supply.
Supply levels are recalculated at the beginning of a turn, but zero-supply losses are assessed at the end of the affected player�s turn.
If the units are in sight of your opponent, the he will see it in the replay, otherwise not, I think.
As for the result of the Garrison to Garrison attack near Canton, I think that was probably just extreme good luck on my part.

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RE: Help with supply - 10/24/2020 2:46:19 PM

Error in 0

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Joined: 7/19/2004
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Thank you all for responding! How wonderful complex the supplysystem turned out to be! I am still confused as to why big cities far from frontlines is not at 5 supply as mentioned in my last post, but at least now I understand how completly naive I have been in regards to cities and railroads.

Thank you also Helsingor for your patience in our game, while I asked here.

Ill google for soome MP games on youtube now :)

Regards
EI0

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RE: Help with supply - 10/24/2020 7:21:12 PM

Helsingor

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Hi Ei0,
If you�d like to start our game again, I�m happy to let you have a �Mulligan�
Just let me know.
Helsingor

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RE: Help with supply - 10/26/2020 2:41:01 AM

Aussiematto

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I learned the hard way about losing the supply line to Korea! I actually managed to win a game after that (Japan conquered but Hungarians, Finns, Turks, Romanians poured into China after I took USSR), but usually you lose.

For those newer to the game, the trick for Japan is to deploy the armies from Manchuria on turn 1 by operational movement into key northern cities and swap the garrisons into Manchuria. There are some other moves too ... corps cover the other Russian mobilisation hexes. You then have to keep them there for a bit until you see what Chinese plans are. While Germany is hurry up offence and research, Japan can afford to go a bit slower. I do not start inf 2 until turn 2, giving me 175 MPP for the redeployment. There are other variations too, involving your decision about Nanning. If not pushing in the south, then the army in transport can get to Tsienstin. In fact, one Japanese strategy is to lure the Chinese into the northern attack. Once out of entrenchments and with less supply, Japanese infantry can hammer them and gain early advantage.

There is no sure path to victory but holding the northern corridor trumps other deployments.

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