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Questións. - 10/26/2020 12:21:03 PM

Halsey74

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/7/2015
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Hi, see if you can help me with some questions, I'm playing the 1943 campaign with the axis.
I have read that from a certain point in time the luftwaffe can convert night fighter squadrons equipped with single-engine 109s and 190s into daytime squadrons.
From what date does this happen?

I'm finishing October 1943, and my main tactic is to attack the deep penetrations of the eighth air force when flying unescorted, I'm doing well. But from November onwards, the P-51Bs and P47D-15s arrive and extend the range of the escort.
What tactics are recommended to attack raids with strong escort? My primary fighters are the Fw190-A6 and BF109-G6
Attack the escorts first with the 109 on patrol and then use the 190-A6/R1 against the bombers?
Wait for the FLAK to damage bombers on the target and then attack the stagglers?

How does R & D work now?
I have built over 250 prototypes of the FW 190D and the counter has not advanced a month. I think that the opacity about how this system works prevents the German player from making sensible decisions about production.
How do you calculate whether it is worth losing current production to R&D without knowing how it really works?
I know that there are a number of prototypes needed to bring a model forward by one month, but I don't know if it's 100,200,400 or 600, nor do I know if it's the same number for each model or if it varies.
The trial-and-error method with campaigns of more than 600 turns doesn't make me very happy.

Thanks.

< Message edited by Halsey74 -- 10/26/2020 6:32:54 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 5:43:30 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

I'm finishing October 1943, and my main tactic is to attack the deep penetrations of the eighth air force when flying unescorted, I'm doing well. But from November onwards, the P-51Bs and P47D-15s arrive and extend the range of the escort.
What tactics are recommended to attack raids with strong escort? My primary fighters are the Fw190-A6 and BF109-G6

BF109-G6 is, in my humble opinion, not good enough. To weak, and not enough firepower. I think it should mostly be replaced into FW 190A models by now- I find that the FW 190-A5 is a good alternative to the A6 variant. Using both reduce the time it takes to replace the Bf 109-G.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 2

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 5:45:19 PM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

I have read that from a certain point in time the luftwaffe can convert night fighter squadrons equipped with single-engine 109s and 190s into daytime squadrons.

The earliest you could replace the single engine night-fighters into day fighters is spring 1944. I think it was 4/44 but I am not sure if I recall that correctly. And it might have been changed.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Halsey74)

Post #: 3

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 5:50:14 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

Attack the escorts first with the 109 on patrol and then use the 190-A6/R1 against the bombers?

I quickly remove the extra gun packs from the 109, and the 190, and try to use them exclusively against enemy fighters, or stragglers. Sometimes I use the 190-A fighters against medium bombers, but try to do so only when heavier aircraft has broken up the enemy bomber formations first.

I use the FW 190F with rockets against heavy bombers. Along with the Me 410A with extra guns, and the Ju 88a. All are equipped with rockets to break up the heavy bomber formations.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Halsey74)

Post #: 4

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 5:54:50 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

And if the enemy raids are to strong and overwhelming, then focus on just one enemy raid and try to hurt it badly.

At times it can be wise to avoid combat just to rest the pilots and regain morale. Just try to make sure that no aircraft are bombed (get them airborne before they are bombed - sometimes patrol can be done if morale is to low or if it is heavy aircraft that can not survive against enemy fighters).

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 5

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 5:55:45 PM

simovitch

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Your S/E nightfighters will automatically convert to dayfighters randomly sometime in March 1944 (you will get a message about "Wilde Sau Tactics Ending"). You can never convert your 2/E nightfighters to those S/E nightfighters though.

Good suggestions on adding some transparency to R&D. The process is described in the production pdf in the manuals folder. We have not tested it or dived into the code to verify it, we are only going on what harley told us about how it works.

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simovitch

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Post #: 6

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 6:32:15 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

What tactics are recommended to attack raids with strong escort? My primary fighters are the Fw190-A6 and BF109-G6
Attack the escorts first with the 109 on patrol and then use the 190-A6/R1 against the bombers?
Wait for the FLAK to damage bombers on the target and then attack the stagglers?

Thanks.

Whilst the 109 has less firepower the 190 loses a lot of performance past 23K. You might have doctrine set to engage fighters for 109 and bombers for 190 but this does not make this happen a lot of the time and those extra gun pods spell doom for 190's caught by the escorts. Try to overwhelm the escorts with 5-6 gruppen hitting the bomber stream at the same time rather than hitting as soon as possible. For stragglers use schwarm units equipped with 110 or 410 to knock them down on the way home, don't give these aircraft rockets but do have the under belly gun pack. Accept losses but not to extreme levels. Be prepared to order units home before their fuel is expended if the situation demands it.

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Post #: 7

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 6:44:03 PM

Halsey74

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Joined: 6/7/2015
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Thank you all very much for the advice.

When I started the game I cancelled the production of the BF-110G2, replacing it with the Me-410, it was a big mistake.
The 110-G2 with additional guns is the one that has offered the best result breaking the four engine formations, the Me410A even with additional guns hits the same as an FW190.
This is my first campaign with the Luftwaffe and I am learning many things the hard way.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 8

RE: Questións. - 10/26/2020 6:46:33 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

How does R & D work now?
I have built over 250 prototypes of the FW 190D and the counter has not advanced a month. I think that the opacity about how this system works prevents the German player from making sensible decisions about production.
How do you calculate whether it is worth losing current production to R&D without knowing how it really works?
I know that there are a number of prototypes needed to bring a model forward by one month, but I don't know if it's 100,200,400 or 600, nor do I know if it's the same number for each model or if it varies.
The trial-and-error method with campaigns of more than 600 shifts doesn't make me very happy.

Thanks.

The R&D is quite subtle now but straight forward. The earliest I got the 190D into service was 4/44. You should not have more than 10 prototypes of any type being produced in any one day. That IS 10 of each type not 10 in total. The ones you should be concentrating on to start with are 109G5AS, He219 and 110G4R7. You can get these into service by 11/44, 10/43 and 11/43 respectively. The 109 is a hidden gem in this configuration. Fast, high ceiling, great aerobatics and carrying the same armament as the G6 although it cannot carry rockets or gun pods. This type becomes my main fighter until the 190D arrives. Once something is coming into service its time to change the older lines to something further down the line. It does take time but that is R&D. Not sure what the number is to reach the new types but it will be a different total for each type of aircraft. I'm 35 turns into a new campaign, have had 4 lines on the G5AS from turn 11 and 10 from turn 21 and still no month move forward yet. These things take time....

(in reply to Halsey74)

Post #: 9

RE: Questións. - 10/27/2020 12:59:12 AM

Stefan123

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Joined: 10/9/2019
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Works for me with great Results vs 4E Formations:

- Fist Attack always with Bf110G2/R3 or Me410, the Wgr Salvos are crutial to soften/break up formations. Full Units-Rested-good Morale.
- Full units 190A6/R1, better results after 2E Attack.
- Patrols of Stab or ISS Units 190A6/R1, 110G2/r3, Me410, Ju88 (only cannons all), chew up stragglers like crazy.
- A Few 4Str Fw190A5 on Patrol may assist in it. (My Main Fighter, waiting for the Return leg escorts)

Dont forget you can use your NF in daylight to assist, the Do217N has insane Firepower! Be careful wih them though.
The Fw190F is great, it handels Italy soley in 43, nice Results vs mainly 2E, 190A6/R1 works even better here, you can hit first with both vs 2E with devestating results.

I never use single engined Aircraft with Rockets, other than 190F.
Needless to say never use any Bf109 iny any form for this.
If the target is PACKED with Heavy AA it produces more stragglers you can shoot down.(Love my Flak Trap Rubber Plants)

I produce only 109G6 for the 500 Pool and to have something, and replace it asap with Fw190A5. No good pilots to waste in 43.
G5/AS ist great (but still fragile) get researched day1,you will need it. Its a long time until Dora.

NF wise i like and Prod Ju88C6, best early Platform imho until 110G4/R7 for the better Fug.
Wilde Sau Types chances in 109G14 and Fw190A8 (to break them free), but not sure about exact date.

LR scorts are a pain, every time in a new GC43 im bummed at first. Having G5/AS helps.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 10

RE: Questións. - 10/27/2020 9:16:14 PM

Halsey74

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/7/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark dolby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey74

How does R & D work now?
I have built over 250 prototypes of the FW 190D and the counter has not advanced a month. I think that the opacity about how this system works prevents the German player from making sensible decisions about production.
How do you calculate whether it is worth losing current production to R&D without knowing how it really works?
I know that there are a number of prototypes needed to bring a model forward by one month, but I don't know if it's 100,200,400 or 600, nor do I know if it's the same number for each model or if it varies.
The trial-and-error method with campaigns of more than 600 shifts doesn't make me very happy.

Thanks.

The R&D is quite subtle now but straight forward. The earliest I got the 190D into service was 4/44. You should not have more than 10 prototypes of any type being produced in any one day. That IS 10 of each type not 10 in total. The ones you should be concentrating on to start with are 109G5AS, He219 and 110G4R7. You can get these into service by 11/44, 10/43 and 11/43 respectively. The 109 is a hidden gem in this configuration. Fast, high ceiling, great aerobatics and carrying the same armament as the G6 although it cannot carry rockets or gun pods. This type becomes my main fighter until the 190D arrives. Once something is coming into service its time to change the older lines to something further down the line. It does take time but that is R&D. Not sure what the number is to reach the new types but it will be a different total for each type of aircraft. I'm 35 turns into a new campaign, have had 4 lines on the G5AS from turn 11 and 10 from turn 21 and still no month move forward yet. These things take time....

Very useful information, thanks Mark.

Thanks also to Stefan for his contribution.
Regarding the combat with escorted formations, I understand that it would be a matter of assaulting the escorts first with BF109-G5AS, to delay them and when the formation flies without a close escort, attack with the 110/410 armed with rockets to break the formation and then hunt down the stragglers with the A6 and A5.
This is a methodical process, it will be necessary to focus on a single formation.

I would also like to ask how you distribute the Flak to make it more effective.
I am currently distributing it this way.

- Light flak (20mm and 37mm) and ballons: They support radars, airfields and ground troops. To shoot down small planes.
- 88mm: Since they have a short range, I use them to protect urban areas since Bomber Command's night bombers usually fly at low altitude.
- 105mm: Industries and major railyards, to protect them from daytime bombers that often attack at over 20,000 feet.
- 88mm Flak 41: Key airfields and key industries.

< Message edited by Halsey74 -- 10/27/2020 9:21:17 PM >

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 11

RE: Questións. - 10/28/2020 7:40:44 AM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

Hi.
Very much like you say but don't forget to top up your pool of guns by stripping those SW French airfields and some industries to the east. Its a bit late by now but I also take up everything I can in S.Italy and the islands before the advancing Allies take them.

Light flak to 37mm in radar, airfields, ground divisions in fortifications and V sites. Note the v sites are not critical to your progress but turning them into flak traps causes extra losses on the Allies and can disrupt bombing forcing another (costly) attack on the site. For the troops I like to really beef up the defences to @200 aamg, 150 20mm, 50 of each 20 mmquad and 37mm. Add an even number (8, 10 or 12) of 88mm for protection against med bombers. Why even and the same number? Because you can see if any need replacing after attacks. I put between 50-75% of these numbers into inf divisions which are targeted less frequently by the AI. Divisions outside fortified lines are less of a priority but will need to be upgraded slowly, once again focusing on the armoured divisions first.

Radar - along with the light stuff and balloons consider putting some 88 and 105 at critical sites once you have @80 light guns in place to absorb bombing losses. Usually I try to get 8+2/4. This can really screw up an attacking med bomber force. Then add more LAAA. The heavy guns also have 2 bonus functions - if a heavy bomber force goes directly overhead they can be targeted/damaged and the force composition revealed. The same thing can happen at night as each gun(or maybe 2 of) comes equipped with a searchlight.

Airfields - as above but without the balloons. Chances of hitting your own balloons have been reduced in the latest patches but it's so damn annoying if you do.

Industry/ports. - these are the sites for flak41. The power/range and damage of these guns plus the high cost of moving them dictates that high value sites get first call. They are slow to produce and generally take the place of the 128mm which are not manufactured in the game.

105mm - these are my all purpose guns. 2-4 in a site gives an extra mile of range over the 88. Factories, ports, railyards all benefit from these guns. Don't put too many into the other sites as the humble 88 will be sufficient for the mediums but those few extra 105's cause a nasty shock.

Balloons - DON'T put them in ground divisions in the front line. Most divisions take basic losses (or so it seems) from the days fighting in aa guns (usually only 1 of each type) so replacing them can be costly in movement points.

And don't forget your flak trains. The cheap cost to move makes them very attractive although once the light flak trains are in position (my favoured sites being radar) they very rarely move unless threatened by ground forces. And keep an eye on the total amount as new ones do become available throughout the game.

Mark.

(in reply to Halsey74)

Post #: 12

RE: Questións. - 10/29/2020 1:59:25 AM

Stefan123

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Joined: 10/9/2019
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Hi,
Same here regarding Flak use and numbers, i not got around to protect Radar sites with aa, ground trooops and my airfields eat all up (nov43).
Rail flak is really nice, i use the light ones to bolster AF flak until i have enough in place. The heavy ones for Key targets (Schweinfurt, the 3 big Rubber Plants) and keep adding 105 and 88/41 too it.
Railjards next to Airfields get light AA too to maximise Strafing losses.

I take all AA from Italy and Sicily before they are lost, but im still always short on em, simply to many needs/numbers to get desired effect. 88/41 i concentrate on a few sites (critical Industries/big Plants)

Thats news to me that new Raiflak appear

There is are some aready in place, and fixed. Can can use/move these new ones ? Get you a message?

Stefan

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 13

RE: Questións. - 10/29/2020 8:31:46 AM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

Thats news to me that new Raiflak appear

There is are some aready in place, and fixed. Can can use/move these new ones ? Get you a message?

Stefan

[/quote]
There is a way to move the rail flak that seems to be emplaced such as the 429th SE based in Berlin and the Sumatra/java unit based in Romania

select move RF
select show RF list
select the RF you wish to move eg 429thSE
select types list
Now select on the map the location and the RF will begin its journey.

You start with 24 RF units. Keep an eye out by counting the total to see when new ones appear (nothing new by turn 35). 2 more of the small Sumatra ones I know exist later on.

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Post #: 14

RE: Questións. - 10/29/2020 3:25:21 PM

Stefan123

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Thanks mark, i will try this out.

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Post #: 15

RE: Questións. - 11/1/2020 9:30:00 AM

brettermeier_bp

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/30/2020
From: Berlin, Germany
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Some general remarks after playing the LW in the Full '43 Campaign against the AI, in different versions of the game (v1.02, v1.04 - v1.06).

First, there is only one critical resource: Pilots. I have never faced shortages of aircraft or fuel. If I remember correctly from a comment in this forum, LW gets 15 rookie pilots a day, other Axis factions 2, so some 25 or so in total. I accept any number of WIA, but KIA numbers are key.

Second, on the aircraft side, only engines are in short supply. Therefore, in the initial planning I seek to switch as few engine factories as possible and try to direct as much existing production as possible towards future projects. In particular the large factories take months to retool, which means no engine production in the meantime. (Sometimes, taking damage and relocating production then even speeds up retooling: I took damage near Braunschweig on an 8 unit capacity which was retooling for DB605/AS -> it was relocated to other places where the new 1 unit capacities only take ~ 35 turns to retool.)

Therefore, on turn 1 I usually enable the following production/R&D-plan:
- 10-12x aircraft each for 109G-5AS, 109K, 190D, 152C and 152H
- in total some 20-30x 190A-5/6
- 3x 190G
- 10-12x Re2005 (yes, they cost two engines, but they are the best Axis interceptor until arrival of the 190D and 109K)
- 6-10x G.56 (long-term goal to try them out, I never had the chance to evaluate the performance)
- ~6x each for 110G-2 and 110G-4/R7
- ~6x of either Do217N or Ju88C-6
- 1x each for 109 and 190 NF, for ~2 months to get some reserve
- Rest is 109G-6, until stack is above 500

Any initial surplus production of useful engines (810D-2, DB603A) is kept, especially large capacities. May later be used for Ju388, G.56 or Do335. Any unnecessary production of DB605A is retooled for long-term useful types asap, be it DB603L, DB603LA or Jumo213E. DB605AS, DB605D and Jumo213A are kept close to the minimum requirement for the desired no of aircraft.

As quickly as possible, 109G-6 production is stopped for other projects (more 109G-5AS, of which I produce 15-20 max; more 109K). I usually do so after Avalanche. Perfomance is too low, losses are too high. When reequipping units with better aircraft, the Gruppen with the highest no of pilots receive better types last.

410A is useless imho, too low altitude, mediocre performance against both 2E and 4E. 410B is useful, once 109G-6 production fades out I usually redirect some 4-8 capacity towards researching it.

(in reply to Stefan123)

Post #: 16

RE: Questións. - 11/1/2020 9:32:12 AM

brettermeier_bp

Posts: 11
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From: Berlin, Germany
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Concerning Flak, I mostly agree with the above. 128mm trains concentrated on big three rubber + Kugelfischer. 88mm/41 for big aluminium, engine, synthetic fuel, chemical, maybe some aircraft assembly plants. Light AA for airfields and frontline ground units first, then radar, railyards near airfields and v-sites. Of course withdraw AA from Southern Italy, Sardinia, Corsica etc in time. Make sure to regularly strip Gustav Line units off their heavy AA, bc they tend to be lost on dive bombing attacks. Asap, I try to cover the Gustav Line main supply route with 88mm + some 105mm, then gradually equip all Italian railyards with at least 2 batteries of 88mm (i.e. 8 guns). Same for Benelux + Northern France in Spring '44 the latest. Reduces 2E effectiveness massively.

Think I'll stop here. Great game, thanks again for everyone involved in delivering patches!

(in reply to Stefan123)

Post #: 17